Last Neanderthals Podcast
Stories that shape futures. Last Neanderthals is a podcast dedicated to learning, evolving and becoming our best selves. Evolve with us!
Last Neanderthals Podcast
The Dark Side of Boxing, Becoming Champion and Fight Culture || Gamal Yafai
From overcoming two brutal torn bicep injuries to becoming a champion. Gamal Yafai’s story is an excellent example of where resilience can take you.
Imagine stepping into the heart of a boxer's world, where each punch and every round is a story of resilience, triumph, and the poignant lessons learned along the way. This episode pulls no punches as we sit down with professional boxer Gamal Yafai, whose life in and out of the ring unfolds like a masterclass in overcoming adversity. From his early days fuelled by a birthday wish to the heights of titles and entering Team GB , Gamal's journey is a testament to the power of dedication and the unyielding support of family.
The conversation takes us behind the glitz of championship belts to reveal the raw culture of boxing, where 'shady' judges and the promise of big paydays collide with the harsh reality of the sport. Gamal, alongside his brothers, unveils the unseen pressures that boxers face, from the struggle with injuries and the crossroads of retirement to the personal battles that shape their lives. Delving into these candid reflections, listeners will discover the true grit required to stay in the fight, both literally and metaphorically.
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Khushal’s Socials
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Wali’s Socials:
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What got you into boxing? My mum just asked me it was my 7th or 8th birthday. She asked me what I would want for my birthday and I just said take to boxing From 10 till 13,. I wasn't really winning anything amazing. Then, all of a cow, I started winning national totals and so then I thought, you know what? I've got to start training hard, because then that would be me. Yeah, that made me train hard and start living the life of a boxer.
Speaker 2:What was it like getting on to Team GB?
Speaker 1:I won the senior ABAs title at 17,. And then I got picked to go on the podium there, GB podium spot. Then I had a few injuries, had a couple of operations.
Speaker 3:Tell us about, when you get an injury like that, the kind of emotions that you went through.
Speaker 1:I just had my little son and I remember thinking I've just bought a house and then I can't fight but I thought it's okay. But then I broached that bicep the second time and then that was a hard road back. It was just horrible what it was. And then I had a warm-up fight and then I went for the European. Yeah, I won it. So it paid off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what was that? What's that fight like? Tell us the emotions I remember just doing everything in my power to win it.
Speaker 2:Which fight did you feel like you had the most pressure?
Speaker 1:The most pressure was definitely the kick for the European title. If I can't win a European title, then there's not going to be any boxing. I don't just want to be a fighter, just fight for the sake of it.
Speaker 3:Gamal, it was lovely to have you on, so we end with this bit of a morbid question. What would we end with this bit of a morbid question? What would you want written on your tube store? That was a weird question. In today's episode, we spoke to a very special guest, gamal Yefai. Gamal is a professional boxer born in Birmingham who went on to achieve the Commonwealth, the WBC International and the European title. Not only does he have these incredible achievements, but he's a very great person who helped my co-host, wally Khan, win his first fight. In our conversation, gamal educates us about the world of boxing, what it's like to deal with setbacks, injuries and what does it take to succeed. Gamal also shares his childhood stories with us and what it's like to be raised by a single mother, as well as his other two brothers, who are also professional boxers, and how they impacted his career. Gamal hasn't only been an incredible athlete throughout his career, but he's also a very kind individual. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
Speaker 2:Are you nervous, gamal? No Good, that's the first person who said they're not nervous really yeah, every other person says they're nervous, even Khushal's dad, who's in loads of public speaking when he comes on the podcast he's always nervous to start with. Nah, is that boxing because you've been through? Yeah, there's been worse. You can have a bloody fight on TV that's what that's amazing so there's something on your mouth I can't man such an important episode, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I'm not that important mate, come on.
Speaker 3:You're important to us. I'm one of the boys from the ends, man? Yeah, one of the boys who helped him win, yeah no, it was honestly that third round.
Speaker 2:I was so dead. You know, from the ends, man, yeah, one of the boys who helped him win, yeah, nah, it was honestly that third round. I was so dead, you know, I don't even know what happened. I got out, I got off the stool, ready for the third round, and my legs were like shaking crunking in the air oh, it was crazy, but I still won yeah, that's the main thing.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, no one did remember how you felt in the third round, so you trained Wally for a boxing match and you know the whole experience was so surreal. But what got you into boxing?
Speaker 1:A box school preacher, Sam Hamid. So he started watching, Grown Up Like loved him, idolized him, Used to pass them on to pay to watch him Because he was box office back then. So you'd have to pay £20 to watch his fight and me and my brother Cal would beg my mum to pay for it and then stay up till 4 o'clock in the morning waiting for him to fight, and we always wanted to watch his entrances as well because they were mad. So, yeah, my mum just asked me it was my seventh or eighth birthday. Just what would I want for my birthday? And I just said take me to a boxing gym.
Speaker 3:Wow, Is that where? So you were the first brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was the first, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So for those who don't know all three, your five brothers, you're four brothers, right all together four and three or five and three of them are pro boxers. Yeah, well, yeah, three including me yeah, so you were the first one who started yeah and that's because of Prince Nassim yeah, prince Nassim, yeah, wow, amazing.
Speaker 1:Then because of Prince Nassim, yeah, yeah, prince Nassim, yeah, wow, amazing. Then I started and got a bit of anger out and I was really naughty kid and that, and got bored of it after a bit as you do, because I was only 7, 8 and I mean kind of fell off, kind of you know, started to chill with my mates a bit more, but then before that, odidas Kawa, my mates a bit more, but then before that I did ask how I'd start coming to boxing. Man, he didn't want to. And then I asked him again just before I was starting to fall out of love, like kind of love with it. And then he started. I just chilled for a bit, chilling with my friends, probably messing around playing football after school and that, and then Cal would go to boxing gym and then he started to have success and I thought you know what? It's time for me to get back into boxing. So I went back, probably when I was about 10. And then, yeah, that's it, then I'm from 10 year old to yeah, that's it. Then I'm from 10-year-old to yeah, till last year.
Speaker 1:But I didn't take it serious as well. Boxing was just kind of a thing where I just think, as a young kid, you know, you're just, you're going to be this, you're going to be that. Without working hard, for the first from 10 till 13, I wasn't really winning anything. You know, know anything amazing? Then Cal started winning national titles and then he'd become world junior champion. So then I thought you know what I've got to? I've got to start training hard, because then that will be me. So, yeah, since then, yeah, that made me train hard and start living the life of a boxer. Um, and and yeah, didn't look back on the thing.
Speaker 2:That's impressive because a lot of people have, like, uh, their parents pushing them towards a sport or like some sort of career, but for you guys, it's like motivating yourselves and then motivating each other to do better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, my mom never pushed me one bit. She never. She'd always, she'd always. If I ever wanted anything called, if I wanted boxing, she she'd take me, she'd. You know she was always supportive, but um, she'd never push me. I'll be quite pushing more. So now, like you know, if you of the time, if you don't want to go football, why don't you want to go football? What's your excuse? And then you go 5-6. So yeah, I can imagine I'd be quite pushy. You've just got to kind of let them do what they want to do and then, if they work hard at it, more time becomes successful.
Speaker 2:Do you think you can see that in someone from a young age, whether they've got that drive in them to be successful?
Speaker 1:When you do see a young kid and you see how they are, you see a few young kids and they're determined to do well, but then they can fall off as well.
Speaker 1:Three, four years, like at 11 years of age, you could be, you know, non-stop at football or boxing, whatever, and then get to 15, 16, start having more friends, start going out, start having girlfriends, start like you know, um, going out on the weekends, that kind of thing, and that um, that kind of uh, that you kind of fall off from your main thing that you want to do, which is whatever. It might be boxing, football, cricket, it might be just working to be a builder, working to be a I don't know working media like yourselves or something like that. But yeah, I feel with boxing it's one of them. Even in football you can work really hard and I know a lot of people say there's this narrative where if you work hard you get it back, which is not always the way, especially with boxing. I feel like you can work hard and you'll give yourself the best chance if you work hard. But it's not. It doesn't mean that you have all this. That's in the world, unfortunately, but gotta give yourself the best chance.
Speaker 3:I can see on your hand. You've got mom tattooed on your hand yeah, could you? Tell us more a bit about your mother and the role she has played in your career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a massive part man, Single parent, done everything for us, supported us, give us the world kind of thing really. And it was hard for her as well because she was on her own and she didn't have one other father figure there for us to support us. That's why I'm like with my son now I give him everything I can kind of give him, support him 100%, because we never had that. But he made us work hard as well and obviously with my older brother, cal, he was we, he pushed us to do better because really me and like me and Galau now we're the younger ones we probably wouldn't be boxing or wouldn't probably.
Speaker 1:Well, galau definitely wouldn't have been boxing, but I don't think I would have took it as serious if it weren't for Laikao, because his success made me think I want to be successful. So, yeah, we owe Laikao a up to be fair. But it's uh, we've had to work hard for it ain't come easy and it's been a long but started boxing, went, like you say, took a series from 11 till now I'm 32 now you know it's been a long time yeah, it's two decades over two decades of boxing.
Speaker 1:It's gone quick though gone quick. Especially with this, the most success you have, uh, when, when you, when you have bad times, you go slow, when you have a good time to go rapid, so uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's been been been good though been fun yeah, so tell us a bit about that success.
Speaker 2:What was it like, uh, getting on to team gb?
Speaker 1:so, uh, like you say, cal won the world juniors um, because that's when it start kind of changed for me, because cal won the world juniors in liverpool oh really great place, it's a place called saint george's, um, but he's in liverpool, um. And uh, he won the gold world juniors and I just thought I've got to take boxing serious now. He was like the world junior champion. He was kind of like he was 16 at the time. He was kind of like the boy coming through, like what?
Speaker 1:everyone would talk about and I thought I want a bit of that it was funny, I was watching one of your interviews with him.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it was IFL, but you were talking about how when you started boxing, he wasn't boxing and then you punched him.
Speaker 1:Yeah we used to fight in the house, make a little boxing ring out the sofa, get our boxing gloves on and have spas. I used to batter him. I swear I know him he used to batter him but that kind of changed after a bit and I thought you know what I've got to fix up man.
Speaker 3:That's what happens when you, little bro, the big bro yeah.
Speaker 1:His success in Liverpool just made me think you know I've got to take it serious. Then I started to. Then I went back to back Junior ABAs, nazyps, to then um. I went back to back junior bases and azyps, um, four nations. Just I become the best in england then, which then give me the chance of fighting the world junior championships two years later, the same ones that he won gold in um. But I got the silver he won. He won. I lost in the final um, but still, you know good thing to do. But silver medals at the world juniors is is hard. So yeah, from then, kind of, but that was when I was 16.
Speaker 1:Then I won the senior ABA's title at 17, which was like probably one of the youngest ever to win. And then I got picked to go on the podium, the GV podium squad, and then went to the European Championships and got a European bronze. Then had a few niggles after that, a few injuries, had a couple of operations which made me miss, which I couldn't basically fight in the Olympics, because there was another guy as well who was ahead of me, called Luke Campbell. He won the gold in London. He's really good, but I was injured with injuries and I couldn't fight in tournaments to show that I was good enough to be picked for the Olympics. But to be fair, he was very good and it would have been very hard to you know, get picked ahead of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because he was so good and it's shown when he won the Olympic gold, he ended up winning the gold.
Speaker 2:Isn't that Luke Campbell? That's like really well known.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ryan Garcia. He had a fight with Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ryan Garcia yeah.
Speaker 1:So he was like really good he was and it's a shame he's my weight, because if he wasn't my weight then, yeah, I would have gone to the Olympics. But he was my weight and he was just experienced, been around a while, so, like I was on the GB a few years. He was on there since I was a kid, since before I was probably started boxing. He probably got three, four years, so he was only four years older than me probably, but he was on the squad on Team GB for a long time. He was really experienced and he was really good, hard to beat as an amateur. So I get it why they picked him ahead of me. And then, yeah, he just won the gold, beat everyone. He ended up beating a guy that Jonjo Nevin, in the final, who I'd beat for a European medal two years before as well. So, yeah, he's like you say.
Speaker 1:It's one of them with the Olympics. It's I could. I could sit and go. Yeah, I would have medalled, but it's, it's a hard tournament to get a medal and never mind win a gold. It's hard, don't get me wrong. I think I'd had a great chance to win a medal, but to win a gold you've got to be, you've got to be a bit special, so you've got to be lucky too, because you went through some very serious injuries through boxing injuries.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is that the hardest thing about training, would you say?
Speaker 1:well, it depends. Like, see, I always had problems with my biceps or my hands. It was one of the two. It would always be my wrists or my bicep, and I'd always been my wrists or my bicep and I'd always have them problems. From when I was on Team Juby, really, and then obviously when I'm pro, I had a few injuries with mans. I had a few the many times I had cortisone injections in my hands because you know they'd be sore and you know I needed to fight because I didn't want to pull out of a fight, so I'd have to whack an injection in me. That happened many times and that happened in my biceps as well. But then eventually one of them popped. I ruptured my bicep in a fight and then, yeah, I was out for a year and then come back to boxing to get ready for ready for a fight, um, and ruptured the other one.
Speaker 3:What is that like? Tell us about?
Speaker 1:like when you get an injury like that that year, the kind of emotions that you went through and I remember the first time I've done it and I just had my little son, um, my first one, and we're thinking I've just bought a house and then I can't fight for a while. Now I've got to pay for this operation, got to do this, and I just thought, oh, what a nightmare. But I thought it's okay, it was the first time I'd done it, it's okay, I had a bit of money behind me, I'll be alright. And, like you say, I had my son just then. So I thought a bit of time with him as well, because I won't be able to um fight, I won't be able to go training, so I won't be in the gym 24 7. Or because I trained away, so I trained in sheffield, so it all week I don't see. You know my family and that.
Speaker 1:So, um, it come at a good time, really, because I just had my son, um, so I weren't too bothered. But then the second, then when I brought you the second time, I thought what a nightmare. Then then really, when I think about it, I probably should have packed boxing. Then really, like retire?
Speaker 3:yeah then, so is that, after you won your European this?
Speaker 1:was before.
Speaker 1:This was oh wow so imagine if he said it yeah, that was before. But I just thought just no luck, and I wasn't getting. I wasn't getting crazy money for boxing, like I was doing it for just the money. It was just, you know, I wanted to reach my full potential and it was kind of slipping away. But, yeah, ruptured that bicep the second time and then that was a hard roll back. It was just horrible what it was. And then, but somehow got you know, time went pretty fast, which was crazy because I thought we'd go slow. Before I know it I was ready to fight again and then Eddie Anne said to me you're mandatory for the European title, do you want to fight for it? Which meant I had to go to Italy to fight for it because he was the champion, the guy. So I was just like, oh, jumped out like sweet, you know what I mean Just trying my ass off.
Speaker 2:Was this your first fight after your injury, or I think I'd won.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a warm up fight. Yeah, I did, I had a warm up fight. I just, yeah, I had a warm up fight. I'm sure I did. I might have just gone straight into European, I can't remember, but yeah, I just I remember just thinking it's a big chance for me to win that. So after this shit I'd gone through, yeah, I thought, yeah, I'll do it. So yeah, that's what I did and yeah, I won it.
Speaker 3:So it paid off yeah, what was that quite like? Like, tell us us the emotions that you were feeling throughout, because you were kind of caged up, I remember just doing everything in my powers to win it, to train him.
Speaker 1:Even before I trained him I'd done everything right and I took him really, really serious. A kid that I thought I'd beat. That's the thing with my boxing career, every fight I've had, there's not been a kid where I thought I can't beat him. I really said I should have beat every kid. With my boxing career, like every fight I've had, there's not been a kid where I thought, ah, like I can't be it. I really said I should have beat every kid I've lost to. You know, I mean, but, um, I thought it'd be hard getting it over in italy because he was italian, he was like the kind of the golden boy over there, um, but I just thought I'll just do what it takes and you know, the rest is leave it up to the judges you know, the judges will be first.
Speaker 1:So just done everything I could, trained hard, had a good training camp, good sparring, good everything, and I went over there, won it quite quite easy. I thought and and yeah, yeah, that was it. I was just happy to be back. I'm back with a good talk, because the European talk is a good talk.
Speaker 3:Do you have a dialogue? So when you're fighting, do you have a dialogue with yourself? What is it? For example, someone who doesn't know anything about boxing they might wonder. In movies it shows in, they're going to this dialogue, they're remembering, like all their struggles, is it like? Is it really like that?
Speaker 1:you know what I would think of weird things I could be fighting. I'm thinking I've got, like the pressure is just mad. Like you're thinking I've got to win, like I've got to win, like if I don't win here, now I've, I've, I've fucked it.
Speaker 2:Basically that's what you like literally.
Speaker 1:I always put too. I think I put too much pressure on myself where I'll be like like this this is matters so much to me like, if I don't win this, like I went in contracts where, like I don't know, I won in a three-year contract or two-year contract where I'm going to be fighting eight times or seven times to get paid this amount. So I just had a, I just had a good relationship with Eddie, and where I fight um, basically when it kind of stays on, kind of thing, I mean you've got a win to stay on, um, so to stay on. So, yeah, I just thought I'm doing everything to my powers to win and that that was probably my downfall.
Speaker 1:Really, in boxing, I would never stick to a game plan a lot of times where I'd see missed, I want to kill him where if I'd boxed him I'd be uncomfortably just boxing. I was a top amateur, so and the kids that I lost to like weren't no way technically better than me and they weren't better fighters than me. So it was just like, yeah, it's just crazy when I think about, when I look back, I think what was I doing? But it is what it is. I don't dwell on it too much. But you know semi-wild.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1:That's why I can see a lot of fighters. That's they're, they're, they're, they're. It kills them to the day they die. Like they'll always think about these, these kind of things and they won't ever get over it. Where I'm kind of laugh but I think what's it doing? But yeah, because you don't laugh, you cry until. I'm fucking dead as well, and I don't want to be doing that did you get nervous before you cried?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'd get nervous, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd get. I'd get nervous. Definitely, like I know, fighters don't like to show their weak, I don't get nervous. But yeah, I got nervous many times, um, even when I was massive favorite, because in every one of my fights I was always a favorite I was always a favorite to win. Really, you want to fight where I want a favorite, so it weren't like I was fighting. You know a top world champion who was. I was up against it, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I weren't ever really up against it yeah, um, so yeah so yeah, but I'm still nervous which fight did you feel like you had the most pressure?
Speaker 1:the most pressure was definitely for the European title definitely yeah, by far.
Speaker 2:Where did you go after?
Speaker 1:that because I thought if I don't win that, then that's it kind of thing yeah, then retirement yeah, kind of thing like if I can't if I can't win a european total, then there's no one being a being in boxing. So so my goals is always win a world total. If I can't win it all, then I don't just want to be a a fighter, just fighting for the sake of it, for a few quid yeah, yeah, because it's not as glamorous as most people are.
Speaker 1:People think boxing is a be-all and end-all. It's not. There's more to life than boxing. It's good to box and make a few quid and be known as a boxer and people know who you are and this and that. But I didn't really care about that me, because I wasn't the type of guy that loved fame or loved the long line. I love money. Of course I do do, but I'm not obsessed with it. I'm.
Speaker 1:I ain't gonna sell myself for it, I ain't work which many fighters do, and um, the way they act on social media, and that ain't me, that weren't ever, ever me, which now I probably look at and go. I wish I was a bit more um outsp, a bit more on social media, because it would have helped me more outside of boxing. But it is what it is. Everything's written for you.
Speaker 2:What role do you think the promoters have to play in that as well? Because we've always been told that, oh, if you're not outspoken, you can't do it. But then you look at people like Khabib, who became one of the biggest stars in the UFC.
Speaker 1:You know what it is. If you're not outspoken, you need to be a fucking very good fighter. That's it, simple as that. My little brother Galal, he isn't outspoken, he don't speak at all. Literally, he don't speak. He don't put anything on social media. He's so quiet, you know what I mean. He's so quiet, you know what I mean. He's so quiet, but he can fight like fuck. So that's why he gets away with it. That's why, that's why he'll always be successful in boxing. That's what he'll always make good money. That's why he'll always, you know, be the best in his way, because without being, you know, outspoken.
Speaker 1:You don't have to be, it helps. If you don't have the belief in yourself as a boxer, then you know it's always the ones that. That's why they're speaking so much you know what. I mean. So if you believe in yourself and your capabilities and your talent and that you don't need to, why do you need to speak?
Speaker 2:How much does the European title help in terms of getting money? Like does your pay go up significantly?
Speaker 1:that's the thing like see boxing. You won't make much money unless you're world champion. Really, I mean, yeah, you won't make much money where you you know you need to be world champion and be dominant for years. So so carol, my brother, he was world champion for a while. He made his money because he'd he held. He made his money because he held it for six fights. He held it for a long time. That's what he made good money in boxing. But if I win the world title now and lost it in my next fight, then yeah, I made a few quid, but I can't retire and chill for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:I can probably pay and chill for the rest of my life. Yeah, I can probably, you know, pay off my mortgage off yeah especially now with the cost, the cost of things, and you know how much house is. You know what I mean. Yeah, you probably pay half of your house off, but you're not going to pay half of your house off, I know right, because you'd be trying to invest it and what's the chance of that blowing up. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean. So. I was listening to Terence Crawford interview and he called boxing the most corrupt sport to what extent corrupt, then the word it's mad.
Speaker 1:It's mad on the people in it as well. 99% of the people in it shouldn't be in it and they got a scooby about boxing. But it's easy access boxing. So like, if you want to be a boxing coach now, you can be a boxing coach within two months time, three months time. How? I mean you just go and do your courses and the two weekends, just learn how to hold pads. Yeah, and I told the pads, learn the. You know basics, you know. I mean, that's it. You're in. Be michael, we could be being. I don't know you could. You could get your licenses within I don't know, next summer, but before you could be. Be in, I don't know you could. You could get your licenses within, I don't know. Next time I'm above a fight, you could be in the corner of it. Really, yeah that easily.
Speaker 3:Yeah, why is it so?
Speaker 1:because that's the way it is. That's why there's so many like donuts in boxing and shady judges as well. Yeah, yeah very shady, yeah, but it's not like any other sport it's a poor man's sport, boxing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's unfortunate, though, because it's such a high risk sport. Yeah, like with football, you have league 2, league 1 footballers making like life changing money yeah, but boxing, you have to be the top to make, though it's crazy, but
Speaker 1:mate though. But that's the thing, like don't get me wrong, like I never made crazy amounts of money, but you know, I've got a decent house, I have a nice thing, I can live. I can live a good life in the sense of like I can if I wanna, if I wanna go on holiday if I wanna, if I wanna. I don't have to work. I don't work 9 to 5. I do my own. You know, I do my own coaching, boxing, coaching. I do well from that, from the name I made, from boxing, and because I know you know I know my stuff, so you know what I mean. So I do a lot of coaching, pt and things like that. So that does well for me. I don't have to do a 9 to 5. But, being honest, that's the least I think I deserve after coming. You know, after my success in boxing I never won a world title, but I won many other things you had great achievement in like WBC international commonwealth.
Speaker 3:European so, but you aspired to become a world champion.
Speaker 1:What was sorry, as soon as that potential went so like I knew, I knew. As that potential went so like I knew, I knew, um, I had the potential to be a world class fighter. But as soon as that was disappearing from me and I knew, I knew when I weren't quite good enough to be a world champion, then I just thought I'm not doing it. I just thought I'm not doing it for for money, like I could still box now and then if and I have to go and do what I do now go and coach or go and work.
Speaker 1:But I'd rather keep my pride intact and you know, just chill, Because I know I ain't knowing it as good as it was. So what's the point?
Speaker 3:Why do you think some fighters they just can't like come at least with it? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I always think it's mad, how like, see, mate, I always think I don't miss boxing where I think, oh, I just want to be back in the boxing gym, I want to be back in the boxing ring, and that I always think, as long as my kids are good, my family are good, I'm sweet, so I could sit in here, I could sit doing whatever I wanted for my kids to's. Not all that. My kids, my missus, my mama, my family, I'm good, ain't it? My family all good. My brother's still boxing. Gilal he's going to be. You know we're enjoying the journey with him. I mean, it's you chill, but I can go away with my brothers, watch them fight, go and see my son play football, go and pick up my son from school, go and do these things that you know a lot of people, you know a lot of boxers, can't do because they want to stay in boxing when you know the dream's gone.
Speaker 1:Really, I mean each to their own.
Speaker 2:What did that feel like when you realised that the dream of world champion was gone?
Speaker 1:I knew I was up against it, even when I was like European champion, and that I knew I was up against it because, like I'm not deluded, I've always been a straight-up guy. To be a world champion at my kind of weight division as well, with the guys, that was, who had the total, would have been hard for me to, even at my best. It would have been hard for me to. You know, even if I reached my potential, it would have been hard for me to beat them. But I would have beat the guys that I've lost to over the years hands down like comfortably hands down. That's.
Speaker 3:That's the only thing that bugs me a bit another thing I wanted to speak about is why is the losing culture in boxing so toxic? You see, mma fighters lose 10 fights, yeah, yeah you know you're gonna get the next one champ. Like they love. Like they love their fighters more after they lose because they get this sense of respect? Why do you think in boxing like you're so toxic with I don't know, it's just crazy.
Speaker 1:I always think it like you see UFC fight, I'll be watching a fight and then he's lost 8 times or something yeah he's been knocked out loads of times and he's come back and he's got the belt now. Or he's come back and he's you know, he's a big name now and you know things like that. But boxings are so different. Everyone writes you off. You are, you can. You can have a shit performance. You could just have a off off night performance and still win, and people write you off.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, I don't get it, you lose, you show that you haven't got a chin, or you know what I mean. You're hurt in a fight. Then, oh, he's shit, he's not going to be world champion.
Speaker 1:He's been, but he's been chin like me. I've been put down a few times in a fight. Oh, he's got no chin, he's fucked. People don't understand the weight like killing yourself with the weight, losing two stone in two months and things like that. How deteriorated you are. They should try it and then get clipped in the chin and see how it feels. Yeah, you don't feel nice, so, but fans are fans and they don't feel cool. That's just the way they are. I just that's the thing with social media.
Speaker 2:I didn't really go on it anyway, so yeah, the keyboard warriors have definitely made things a lot worse. That's the thing. And.
Speaker 1:I don't portray that. I'm this. I'm a hard boy and I keep myself to myself. I'm a family man. I don't, I don't want to live that life, but like you see, like you'd love to see them on, say something to them. They'd shit their souls, wouldn't even they've never had a thought in their lives as well. That's the thing. Ninety-nine percent of them haven't had a thought in their lives. And if you said to them you've seen them on the street come round the corner and they'd shit their souls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally shit their souls me and Khashoggi spoke about this a bit as well. People are so much more respectful in real life. It's crazy the same guy who'll be like saying ridiculous things online. If you meet him in person, he'll switch up completely. Yeah, it's mad.
Speaker 1:It's just the way it is. See me, I'll just be straight, whether it's on social media or not, you know what I mean. Fucking. That's just the way I am. That's the way I'll always be. Yeah, I ain't a black guy many of them and there's too many people that disrespect people without getting a fucking or punching them out for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I was going to say, like these journalists that write these like articles and shit on fighters. Bro, get in the ring first, get punched once, and then you'll realise yeah, then you'll realise, yeah, yeah or at least have a fight.
Speaker 1:But they wouldn't even have the balls to put a pair of gloves on and have a fight. You see all these kids now stabbing each other. Why do you think that is Because there's that much fear of them going to have a straightener on the park and getting knocked out. Yeah, so that's why they won't have a fight, because they think I'm going to stab him, because if I go and have a straightening with him he knocks me out. It's all over. One of my mates have recorded it, all my mates have seen it and they're like a sausage.
Speaker 1:That's why it all, that's why it literally.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, they won't.
Speaker 2:That's why it's on it and that's it. There's nothing embarrassing about being a man, and even getting knocked out like a man.
Speaker 1:Nothing the hardest case is like you know. You probably know some hard lads, or I know hard lads that have been chained loads on but, they're serious guys though you know what? I mean but yeah it is what it is.
Speaker 3:It also gives them more of a story like who wants to see a guy who wins, wins, wins? It's like the guy that I find inspiring, like, for example, when I was going through very dark times. Um, uh, like I failed my a levels right, like it's not, but then like at the same time, like around that time is when, uh, ruiz beat the shit out of aj. Yeah right and aj I watched one of his interviews.
Speaker 3:Like don't let success get to your head and failure to your heart yeah that one line, yeah, changed my whole perspective on how I looked at failing my A-levels. And then, like I went on this comeback journey, I literally wrote it on my wall on my phone. That quote was everywhere and I then got into my dream university King's College, college, london. So it was not AJ wins that inspired me that year, it was actually his loss and people underestimate the power of, like you know, like you learn more from losing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do. You learn, you learn a lot more when you lose, and you learn who's in your corner as well when you lose, that's a lot. That's the thing with boxing. You lose, that's a lot. That's the thing with boxing. You lose, no, no, you turn around, no one's there when you lose. When you win, everyone's there. When you lose, everyone's got off. Mate, that's a thing like. I've always kept a small team and it's just kind of like me, my brothers, couple of friends, um, and that's it I I mean they're gonna love me if I win or lose, and I'm the same with them.
Speaker 1:They could win, they could lose. I've seen, I've travelled the world with Cal. He's won world titles, defending world titles, big shows, done everything. But then I've travelled when he's you know, when he's lost. But he's still gonna be there, isn't it?
Speaker 2:That's what it is. What advice would you give to someone coming up in boxing right now?
Speaker 1:Don't do it unless you're 100% about it and just be careful, isn't it? And get the right team around you Little tight team and then work hard, you know, and give it your all. Little tight team and then work hard, you know, and give it your all. And don't be worried about going out with your friends and doing all that kind of stuff, because by the time you're 20-odd your mates are going to have deft you off, got a few girlfriends and you won't see them again. So just do it while you're young and give all your strength to it.
Speaker 2:That would be mine, but, like you say, not everyone will listen to me yeah, that's the mad thing about when you're that age, you'd think you know everything, and yeah you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, man, you're cool and, um, that's the thing. Uh, you need, you need older brothers, you need your dad to be telling you. Like you said about it. Dad told me I used to think I knew everything. Whatever I said in my head I thought that's right.
Speaker 1:When he, when he went you know what I mean, but obviously I'd call to look up to he kind of had this success, first in boxing and then we kind of followed and then Gal kind of followed and then Galah was just not. Galah went into boxing and read it out all and kind of we said to him, come to the gym, come to the gym. And he was on with nine. He always played football and he loved football. So he stuck at that and then eventually he listened to us and started coming to boxing. So he, like we was, like we was massively influenced by Galal's boxing, like Galal, I don't think Galal would be boxing if it weren't for us.
Speaker 1:He's coming to and he's, in a short amount of time, just changed his life massively. Yeah, working at JLR, working at Landover, you know, hated his job, coming to boxing. And then within within eight years, seven, eight years, he lived with Champing and you know a good name in boxing made you know a lot of money, so didn't read a while. And it's only the beginning, really. He's got got a good five years left and he will champion in probably a year time in China.
Speaker 3:You guys are a great example of what brotherhood is and should be like yeah, you know what it is.
Speaker 1:I know a lot, of a lot of people and they don't go on with their brothers really, and I think it's mad, mad, especially when you've got brothers that like that, you can, you can all help each other, you can all help each other. And and Dev Dev cows out me and I've helped him and vice versa, and we've all helped each other massively and we wouldn't have done as well in boxing if it weren't like that. But, man, thanks to my mum, ain't it? Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, man, it's been fun, whatever man Like. I never got what I wanted from boxing, which is something I'm well told, but I had some good times, met some amazing people in boxing, met some retards as well. I want to ask you their names.
Speaker 1:Yeah, met some nice people as well, met some good people and you know they'll be friends forever kind of thing. So it's been good Now I can sit back and, you know, see my kids grow up and you know, hopefully they can become better than I was yeah, no, I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's such a it must have been such a sick experience going through that because, like, think about most people just nine to five their whole life, like, yeah, that's not I'm. I don't think that's positive, I don't think that's what's meant for humans to do. Like for yourself, you've experienced things that only like the top 5% of maybe top 1%.
Speaker 1:You know what it is, though. Like there's people that do work harder to try and get out there and not to fall, and I know people always say there is always the narrative of you work hard, you get out what you're putting. It's not always the way. There is guys out there that work 9 to 5. Like, I don't know, 95% of the country do, ain't it Like work 9 to 5. And there's many of them that work hard and want to get out of their 9 to 5.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They haven't got the funds. They haven't got. Whatever it may be, but it's. You need a bit of luck as well. You need a bit of luck. You can like I could sit here and go. I want to be I don't know. I want to go and do, do something immediate now, or be work in construction or something else and work my ass off. But it might not pay off. Yeah, and especially in sport, because, like sport's hard man, only one, especially in boxing 1-2% make it where they can come out and be financially secure for life and so much can go wrong as well.
Speaker 1:So much can go wrong, yeah, injuries, that's a thing injuries, inactivity, inactivity is a killer for boxing killer. You have inactivity, you know what I mean. It's no good you have inactivity, you know I mean it's no good you, you, you have to shadow yourself. Um, I don't know to make excuses, but a lot of it would, that was a lot of it with me. Inactivity, injuries, and you know I mean it would have always been hard to, uh, be top tier. You know well, you know elite fire, but you know, would have definitely been done better, yeah, but it is what it is, isn't it? And, like you said, I can't cry over it forever because it's fucking, yeah, but it's been fun. And, like you said, I can sit back and see my kids grow and, you know, get on the road with them, isn't it?
Speaker 3:You know, seneca? He's a very I think it's Seneca, he's a very I think Seneca, right amazing philosopher. I don't know if he said it or not, but he says the secret to happiness, or secret to good life, is to want what you have. It's like a lot of people want what they don't have yeah and the things they once wanted that they thought would make them happy.
Speaker 3:Now that they have got them, now they're looking at the next thing and you're a very good example of like wanting what you have, and that's beautiful that you have this level of gratitude and yeah, you know what it is.
Speaker 1:Like you said, I just think everything's been written for me and I've been, and that's it. And I'm a big believer in God, and I've. He's written this for me and that's it. No point crying, no point crying over it, and it's not. I don't live a bad life, I'm not in poverty.
Speaker 3:Also, you've done very impressive things. Yeah, I'm not a millionaire you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm not a millionaire, but you know what I can. I can pay my bills, my kids can have the nice things. You know what I mean. My, you know, I mean my. Well, you know I can go on a holiday once a year, I can. You know, I can have take time off work, coaching or whatever if I want.
Speaker 1:Um, so it's, you know it's not too bad, it's not it's not too bad it's um, like you say, I'm, I'm blessed, and there's people in a lot worse position than me, you know I mean. So I can't sit here and moan, can I you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So like you said, we'd all want to be multi-millionaires, wouldn't we? We'd all want to be cool, yeah, and you've also developed skills that you can still monetize and pass on to other people as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I mean, because you you are very good at coaching, like me, and khushal have done a few sessions with you and yeah the, the level that we improve, that, compared to other people who are boxing, is insane, and the difference with your coaching yeah, thank you, um, but yeah, um, oh, you say more experience I can pass on to others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then that's why I'll always be, that's why I think I'll be do successful in it because, like I said, I can give to kids that not many can give, given that experience. So, yeah, I think I'll always do well in it. But yeah, it's, it's gonna be fun. We'll see. And, like I said, I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know what my future, my future, holds, but I'm just gonna pray and hope and see, see how it goes, yeah, on a personal level, we're very grateful to you like. Wally.
Speaker 3:Wally won that fight like you know that was like all that, all the work you put in, the way you helped him progress through the stages, like you didn't overwhelm him overwhelm him with information, the way you coached him, and it's just amazing like you gave us memories that we can cherish for our life.
Speaker 1:No problem man, it's been been been happy to be part of the little journey and it's like you say I like being around good people and you good people, so I'm happy to support it, thank you brother same goes, and you got people, so I'm happy to support it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, brother, same goes for you as well, no problem. Yeah, All right. So I had some boxing questions for you. Usyk is going to fight Fury. How do you think that goes? I want to edge Usyk you know, Really why.
Speaker 1:You know, I just if Fury wins, it's because he's a bigger guy, I think. I think Yusek will win because he's a better fighter, all round better fighter, I think. But if he does lose, it would just put down to Fury's better and bigger guy. But I do think I'm just going to go with the better guy. So, yeah, I'm just going to go with the better guy, which I think Yusek is. So, yeah, I'm going to say Yusek.
Speaker 2:Do you think if we asked you that question before Fury versus Ngana, you would have said the same thing? Or no, Probably not, you know probably not, I think he's.
Speaker 1:I don't think Fury's the same as what he was, I think Fury a couple of years ago, yeah, it would have been we. Yeah, it would have been. We would have edged Fury definitely. Yeah, comfortably as well. But now I'd probably edge, would use it yeah, how do you think it ends? Point yeah, point Clear victory or close. Nah, close yeah it'll always be close. Yeah, I think, use it with edge it three, four rounds, I reckon, but it could be so wrong Fury could just be too big. Yeah yeah and just fire him.
Speaker 2:He's just a weird guy as well. Innit like what if he just clocks in? Yeah, that's the thing with Fury.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah he's. He blows hot and cold innit yeah but, when he blows cold, he still wins.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's weird.
Speaker 1:He's got the gypsies, he's just so good isn't he? He's good, he's good. Yeah, it'd be interesting man, I'm looking forward to that fight All right.
Speaker 2:What about Berta Bia versus Bivol? I think.
Speaker 1:Berta Bia, if you know Really. Yeah, why? Because Bivol's a very good boxer. But people? Because people just see the way Berartia just knocks everyone out. You forget how good of a boxer he is, the way he cuts the ring off, the way he closes distance, so good and so quick. So and he's a very good boxer, people just don't think he is because he he punches so hard and he knocks everyone out. Every fight he's had he's one point back up 20, that's crazy run out every fight he's had.
Speaker 3:He's one point back up 20. Yeah, yeah, he's got 100 percent ratio yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, people forget about that that he can box really good, um, so I'm just gonna, I'm not even gonna edge him. I think he just I think he probably pole exes before really yeah, I think he does. I think eight, eight, eight to twelve, something like that, eight to 12 rounds, you finish him, I think. Tko sleeping yeah, I think he cleans him or do oh KO, not even TKO yeah, more TKO, but just stop him, just beat him, whether it's sleeping or not.
Speaker 1:I think he'd, I think he'd beat him, I think, just I don't know. But the thing is see, with Bivol, if you haven't got fast feet, you've got no chance. You've got no chance with Bivol, but I think he closes distance really good, berthia, and he can punch hard as well, and he's a good boxer. So he's he's got everything that's needed to beat.
Speaker 2:Bivol, where's he from?
Speaker 1:Russia, russia, yeah, he looks, looks it he looks like them.
Speaker 3:Dagestani. You know Chechnyan Dagestani?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't think he's full Russian but I know he's Muslim yeah, but you're on about Bivol no. Bivol yeah. Bivol is Muslim. Yeah, but Bivol he's from. He bought for Russia, but I don't know what he is like. He's half something else, but he looks Kazakh, doesn't he?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he does look like he's from Central Asia. Yeah, but his song.
Speaker 1:I don't know where it's from, but he's. All I know is that he is from Russia. He boxed for Russia as amateur. But I'll tell you a story. I boxed in the world juniors at Azerbaijan and then he was in the final with me when I boxed there, and he was a guy that everyone looked at and thought, oh, he's unbelievable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how can you tell like, even when they hit you in the back?
Speaker 1:but no, no, just the way. But when you box the way the way box just the how fluent he was, his, his feet is his feet is a big thing for me in boxing. When you watch their feet, how good they are. His feet was just unbelievable and, like every good boxer, you see their feet. It's just.
Speaker 3:They're just something else, yeah but Bivol with his Soviet style in an oh, it's beautiful, it's a great fight, it's a wicked fight.
Speaker 1:But I'm gonna. I'm not even gonna edit and it's a wicked fight but I'm going to. I'm not even going to edit, but I think he wins comfortably.
Speaker 3:Yeah the last question I had about boxing, not maybe about a fight. Um, what if, let's say, aj versus the winner of who's second fury? Because AJ is your friend. So no, the thing is, can't give us bias.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, because we like, we ain't close friends like that where I have to lie in it like he's a good guy. I was on the GB squad for years together and he's a nice guy and I do support him, I do like him and that and I want him to, but I do think that he beats Fury. I think he beats Fury if him and Yusef fight again. I think we've, I think it's a lot closer now.
Speaker 1:I think it's a lot closer and the second time he nearly had it man, the second time he could've. He lost the last two, three rounds. He drifted. You know he won the last few, but I just feel like this fight, I think, if they're fought again. He drifted, you know he won the last few, um you said, but I just feel like this fight, I think he could. If they're fought again, I think with Ben Davis, ben Davis in his corner and the confidence he has now, I think he could be yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 3:I think it's a lot closer than last time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definite so Josh is confident. Now you can see it. He's confident. And why he's so? He boxed Wall-In Otto. Wall-in Fury had a nightmare with him.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Fury should have been stuck really on the court, because the court was awful and Josh just folded him in four rounds and then everyone goes. Okay, let's see how it goes with your man. What's his name? Mugana Mugana. Okay, let's see how it goes with your man.
Speaker 3:What's his name? Ngannou Ngannou.
Speaker 1:And then he just folds him.
Speaker 2:That was crazy, just absolutely folds him, and for 10 rounds.
Speaker 1:You called it. Yeah, for 10 rounds. He struggles, Fury. I think Ngannou won that fight against Fury. To be honest, I think Fury edged it. Honestly.
Speaker 2:I think Fury edged it as Honestly, I think Fury edged it as well.
Speaker 1:I thought Fury won by one or two rounds.
Speaker 2:I swear to God, maybe one.
Speaker 1:I did, honestly I did, but I thought because everyone was going and going and I was like nah, I thought Fury did win. But he was terrible, he weren't good, and then Josh's product is in. So you've got to make people think now, and it does. Everyone thinks now. A lot of people think oh, you know what Josh and Fiora would win now.
Speaker 1:They do A lot of people do, but before everyone was going Fiora, fiora, fiora, 100%. Now it's like you know you're dead. To Josh, definitely. And you'd like to think, if Josh and Jusek have a fight again, yeah, of course Jusek would probably be the favourite because he's beat him twice, but he'd be 50-50. You'd like to think, like Josh has shared the ring with him twice now. Yeah, he's stayed active, jusek hasn't really stayed active. You'd think he's older. Jusek's quite a bit older than than Josh. I mean, you'd like to think Josh would be be, you know, the slight favourite now yeah, but it's opinions innit.
Speaker 1:Who was Yusek's last fight Yusek's? Last fight, was it. I couldn't even tell him, I couldn't what's his name? Was it Dubois, dubois, yeah.
Speaker 3:Dubois yeah, that didn't happen controversy.
Speaker 1:So how long ago was that? That was a while ago. A while ago because Fury man.
Speaker 3:I like the guy, the inspiring fighter, what he went through and came back, but, man, you gotta fight the best. The fact that he just bullied Cesaro for the third time, yeah, yeah, but you know, leave him alone, mate yeah, but yeah, it's one of them.
Speaker 1:It's like that was a pathetic fight, isn't it? It's a pathetic fight, but fucking, he stayed. The main thing is staying active, and in a heavyweight division, a lot of them don't. They don't stay active and then they just go off and two, three year break. That's why, like with Joshua, I admire what he's doing, man. He's staying active, fighting no matter if it's not. You don't have to be the world champions every time. Everyone expects you to fight the world champions. You don't have to fight them. You can take easy opponents. Yeah, I think that's why and then you'd be better in the world title fights, I know right, you'd be better. They'd make you a lot more ready to fight in a big fight.
Speaker 3:I don't understand this narrative. Like oh, fury's the GOAT and you know he's had this narrative in his fear for so long when Joshua's resume has been the best he's fought everyone, parker, all the hardest fights. He's fought them all right, and it just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:You see, josh he has, he's fought, he's just fought. Whoever?
Speaker 2:When he ain't had to.
Speaker 1:He's been a big name. He just sells whatever fucking arena stadium out. He can fight anyone really and sell it out. So he can just fight anyone, but he always picks the good ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is why I never bought that narrative of Fury and Wilder would push that he's ducking the fight. It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:It's like you said, said, people said Josh flapped it from Waldo as well. Swear Waldo, he never, he's willing to fight, and then Waldo loses against Parker. Yeah, I mean, it's just one of them and it's. But people see, now people start to see, don't know, people start to go okay, maybe he won't Josh all along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, don't know people start to go okay, maybe it weren't joshua long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, people are onto him. Now, what do you think people are onto fury?
Speaker 2:yeah, they know what he's on now as well. What do you think happened to him for those couple of years, though?
Speaker 1:because it did seem like he like switched off a bit with boxing you take, you might take a loss and you can't.
Speaker 1:He dents your confidence and he dents your confidence and that he does, and he probably thought he ain't got the right team around him, he ain't comfortable in the environment that he was training in and he probably thought you know what, I need a new start. And, to be fair, he's had a new start with Ben Davison now and he looks good. He looks like he's happy and enjoying. You know he's boxing. He's shown really in the ring.
Speaker 1:No matter what I say, no matter what anyone else says. Like it's kind of shown in the ring, isn't it? And he's probably the right fit for him and his career going forward. So, but whatever he does, wish him well yeah, hope he can bring because he's the main man for for. I hope he fucking brings, because he's the main man for for British boxing. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean he's a good role model, he's a good role. Yeah, he's a good role model, isn't he?
Speaker 1:he's a good role model. And I mean, and the thing is with Josh. What I've always liked with Josh is that like and again. It's not fucking licking his ass or whatever, like it, just he's always been that kind of the same person. He's never changed.
Speaker 2:But when?
Speaker 1:I met him I don't know 2011 to now? I don't know. Last time I seen him was a couple of years ago. He's still the same guy. Really.
Speaker 1:And he's gone from being, in 2011, being a normal guy with not a lot, being like a road man, to now literally like one of these folks which was off good at boxing, and then now he's a multi-millionaire but probably one of the most famous sportsmen in britain, and he's just the same guy and I I would more that. I think I respect that I go. Can I have a fair play?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very admirable.
Speaker 1:That's all I respect him on, not his, not his accolades, not what he's done in boxing. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean how he is as a person. You know what I mean and that's how I am with anyone. But you don't have to have 100 million followers, 100 million pound in the bank or a million followers on Instagram. If you have 100 followers on Instagram and you have 10 quid in the bank but you're a nice guy, I like you and I'm going to be nice but not everyone's like that. 99% of people ain't like that.
Speaker 2:Speaking of people who might change. What do you think is going on with Ryan Garcia?
Speaker 1:I just think he blacked everyone, didn't he? Do you reckon? Yeah, I just think he blacked everyone, didn't he? Do you reckon that's?
Speaker 2:some next level acting.
Speaker 1:He's a weird cat man. He's a weird man, but fucking he's showing up, hasn't he? And he's done the job. And you know, like you say, he's probably done it. I don't think he was 100%, I don't think he was 100%. So if he's done that, even 80%, 90%, then just think, if he was 100%, what he could have done yeah.
Speaker 1:I know he got, he got. He got battered by Davis, gervonta Davis. But he got battered by Davis, gervonta Davis. But you see the difference from against Davis, the way he looked like a skinny young kid compared to now. He's fully fledged, grown man and he fucking looks a lot better yeah, he had to really cut down on weight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cut down on weight it matters man.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you it's a difference between a losing. It's a difference. People think you, man, I'm telling you it's a difference of winning and losing. It's a difference. People think you know. It's not. It is man. If you lose, lose a good bit of weight in boxing, it deteriorates you. You went the same fight, huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I see most kids over the years sparring. I see most kids in sparring and I you know what handful Fucking really good he is and you see him fighting and shit. They're after you and you're like fucking, that's weird. Why do you think that is Just like? You say weight and deteriorated, and there's some some ain't the same on the fight night and nerves and whatever, but a lot of the time it would be just weight.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I've stood many, many times. I could sit here and name 100 fighters. Honestly, I wouldn't do it live, but sit here and name loads. I've seen him sparring, I thought fucking, and seen him a few times, not just a one-off, seen him a few times sparring and there have been handfuls really good and you think, ah, he's going to do well, but they haven't quite done so well, whether that's weight or just the pressure getting to them, nerves, whatever. But yeah, it's all got to come together on the night, no matter how good you are in sparring, training, whatever, it's all got to come together on the night. Simple as that, really, and anyone whoever's in that ring, the two fighters in that ring, they've got any given chance to win like they can, whether you're the favourite or not? If you're, if you're not, you can be the favourite and you'll shudder yourself. You're gonna get beat because you're gonna be in a ring with someone decent yeah you're gonna.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. You're not gonna be with a crab, you know what I mean like a really, really bad drone. You're going to be someone decent, aren't you? So if you're not up to it, then can you get beat, man boxing and it's shown since boxing has been fucking. It's been happening. You see upsets all the time back in the day. You know Mahmoud Ali, all these tough fighters and. Shug Ray Leonard, all of them, durant, they've lost many times to guys should have killed yeah, mike Tyson Douglas yeah and vice versa.
Speaker 1:They've beat guys that shouldn't have beat yeah you know what I mean. But you know what I mean. It's just one of them and it's boxing. Um, it's like you say, it's all fun. I won't say games, because it's not a game, but boxing's mad it is a crazy sport.
Speaker 2:Crazy sport. Closest thing we've got to gladiators now it's mad you, literally.
Speaker 1:Honestly, you could be. You walk to a ring, there's thousands of people and then you're about to just go and have a fight, ain't it?
Speaker 2:that's what I respect I swear to god, respect anyone.
Speaker 1:Because like you, like, you say, like you, you know when you're younger and like, um, you're gonna have a fight on the parks for me, and you're probably like nervous, scared and that, and you think like that's what it's like, can it? But you're doing it in front of thousands of people. It's mad, he's mad, I'm telling you. You've so the things that could go through your head as well. You'd be in a fight. You'd be thinking little things will come to my head and that, like what I'm going to eat, what?
Speaker 2:I'm going to eat and just like mad things Like weird things.
Speaker 1:I'd be like fucking hell, what did that come to my head for man? Or what I'm going to do I'd going to do next week, and that like mad things. Like then you could be like oh, I can't lose this fight, can't lose it yeah. I mean just like mad things will come in your head, the weirdest things which a lot of fighters won't mention it.
Speaker 3:But I will. I don't give a fuck. Give us more. What's been some of the other weird thoughts that you've had?
Speaker 1:I don't know man, the weird man, those are weird thoughts have you ever made yourself laugh Not? Laugh? No, because fucking, I've never wanted to laugh, to be fair to me but Don't come see me.
Speaker 1:Don't know just little, it'd be pathetic. Things like, honestly the tiny things, like you remember something that you'd done a couple of days before, like gone for a Nando's or something. I went Nando's. You're not thinking about that, you're thinking you're in a fight, you're fighting on TV and you thought about when you were sitting in Nando's the week before or something that's crazy weird little things.
Speaker 2:It might be just me, I don't know that makes it seem like it's like muscle memory for you almost like you're going through the flow so you can afford to.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's fucking why I was too clumsy sometimes just thinking about other things. But yeah, just mad things, mad things. Boxing is mad. It's the maddest ball in the world. You walk to the ring and you're thinking about things and you think the fuck, I've got to fight now.
Speaker 3:And is it over quick, like the 12 rounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes, quick it goes rapid.
Speaker 3:And what about pain? Like you guys are hitting absolutely nah, nah, I've never had pain never had pain in the ring, you know.
Speaker 1:Swear to god never, even when I've been put down or something. I don't feel it. I'm down. I think what can I do down here? Get back up. I've never, I've never been in a fight where I've been like oh I'm gone, here, I'm gone. I'm just like I've been hit and I'm flashing and I get back up and that's it. Like you know, you see some fights where you've hit someone and they're gone.
Speaker 1:They're absolutely gone like never been like that, like I flashed on and you're like, fucking, what am I doing down here, literally on the floor, and you're like, what the fuck am I? What am we're doing down here? Swear to god, you get straight back up, it's a maddie sport in the world mad swear to god. There's nothing, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1:I always say there's nothing like boxing you can go and play on a football pitch and that, and you won't be fucking. Go and play on the Manchester 90 ground and I'm just gonna run on them I don't know six pound beef. Oh yeah, playing football when you're in a box and someone's coming at you to try and kill you, that's different yeah that is different, trust me.
Speaker 1:So that's so it's. It's hard man, it's nerve wracking. That's how I respect any boxer. I respect that especially, and especially the ones that that ain't so good that I've got it that they're fighting someone, that's really good, it's like the good. There's guys out there now that are fighting like really good guys and they're not that good. They're not meant to win. They must be horrible for them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was thinking fucking.
Speaker 1:I'm up against it here. You know what I mean. But then, at the same time, there isn't much pressure on them because they're meant to lose. There's pressure on the other guy. There's two ways to look at it, but either way, you've got to respect anyone that goes in the ring, especially on TV where loads of people are watching it thousands of people there watching the fight, hundreds of thousands watching it on TV and having a fight. Tv, no win, no win, because I know fighters go now. I knew I was going to win. I knew this and that it always comes into your head I could lose this. There's not. Fighters always go. No, I knew I was going to win. I've always been that one. I've always knew in my head I could lose this. If I'm not on it, I can lose, simple as that. Always think it always thought if I don't every fight I had, from first to my last as an amateur and pro, if I'm not on it, I'm gonna lose this.
Speaker 1:I never, ever thought that I'm gonna go in this fight. I'm gonna win hands down, I'm gonna win easy yeah, I'm just gonna. I'm basically gonna turn up and win. Don't have it, don't work like that. You get you go in there. You've got to be on it yeah or you're gonna lose any. And there's times when I won on it and I won.
Speaker 2:But there's times when I won on it and I lost yeah so, and there's so much to lose every time as well because of that thing, of that keeping that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's what I mean. So, like you're not in a contract, you're not. Again, go back to what we're. So, like you're not in a contract, again, go back to what we were saying before. You're not in a contract where you're in a three-year contract. Or, for example, now you're in a 10-year contract at work, or three-year contract, whatever it may be, and you have a day off work or a week off work. You're sweet, you're getting paid still. Yeah, everything happens.
Speaker 1:You're going to walk or the next week and everything's sweet. But if you, if boxing fight, if you don't get in the ring you're not getting paid, or if you lose you're not getting more time, you're not gonna get another fight, or you're gonna get another fight for fucking half the amount of money.
Speaker 3:Gamal, it was lovely to have you on, so we end with this bit of a morbid question what would you want written on your tube store?
Speaker 1:oh dear, fuck, yeah, that's a weird question.
Speaker 3:Rest in peace so how would you like to be remembered is another way of saying this.
Speaker 1:I don't know, just probably a nice guy. I swear to hell, probably a nice guy, isn't it? No one can ever say oh, he's a proper fricky, you know what I mean so I'm a nice guy. I don't remember. I don't want to be remembered for what I've done, like in boxing. I just want to be remembered for how I am as a person. That's amazing for me, because that's all. You can't respect someone on their accolades, what they've done. I don't know, mate, you could be a top four player, top box or whatever.
Speaker 3:You can't respect them on that as a person yeah, yeah I mean, yeah, if they're going home and beating up their wife and being horrible yeah who cares?
Speaker 1:fucking, there's no good being a great bloody boxer or footballer. And then you, you, you see him in the street and you go. You, alright, mate, and he's like fucking morbid, morbid bastard got time for you and that isn't it. It's not noise, is it so? If you're a nice person, then you know that's what I'd like to be known as. I think I am.
Speaker 1:I know it yeah, I mean I'd say so cheers, mate, no, but yeah, that's it really just a good dad, good, good, good family member, good brother, sister, dad, whatever and an amazing coach.
Speaker 3:Brother, it's been a pleasure, thank you thank you for joining us no worries, man take care.
Speaker 2:Thank you for helping me win my fight no worries, no worries.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening. Guys really appreciate it.
