Last Neanderthals Podcast
Stories that shape futures. Last Neanderthals is a podcast dedicated to learning, evolving and becoming our best selves. Evolve with us!
Last Neanderthals Podcast
What We Learnt From 6 Months of Podcasting!
In today's episode, we discussed some crucial conversations related to our podcast. With our first guest, Julie Coley, we talked about teaching colonialism in the curriculum. There were comments arguing for both sides of the debate regarding teaching British colonialism in UK schools. We shared our take on this and many other controversial comments with our second guest, Mila Sticevic. There were comments on our video claiming that feminism is against men. Finally, we spoke about what we learned from our conversation with Gamal Yafai, a professional boxer who has won European, Commonwealth, and WBC international titles. We hope you learn from these conversations as much as we did.
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Welcome to Last Neanderthals podcast. I've got Wally.
Speaker 2:Khan, my co-host, who's joining me online?
Speaker 1:First podcast online.
Speaker 3:How's it going? How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm good man Trying to look for a part-time job. You know, trying to run this thing, it's hard to be consistent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is hard work to be fair, but we're managing, we're pushing through.
Speaker 2:I'm proud of you, man. You push for this. Yeah, we both have. I was lacking.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. Over the past. What is it like? Six? It's like six months now, isn't it Almost, yeah, half a year. We've both made sacrifices to keep it consistent and not even getting major reviews or anything. So to keep disciplined, we should pat ourselves in on the back 100.
Speaker 2:We've done more than 20 episodes without missing a week. Yeah, how are you? You got exams and stuff you're going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I've got. I've got a couple things left still. I've just had two exams, but I've been. I was really, really unwell. I'm still quite unwell, but I'm getting better. Well, I'm not getting better, but I know it's not anything like too serious now, which is good. But we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2:Uh, maybe another time yeah, let's say for another time you had me stressing, but you, you're good yeah, all right, so let's talk about this month's podcast then.
Speaker 3:Um, starting off with mila stricevich I think. Yes, the last name was confusing, but I think it was stricevich. That was a very interesting conversation, what? What were your key takeaways from it?
Speaker 2:my key takeaway was that what it was actually from something. You said that just because something is a feminine like trait right that a man has, why is it necessarily a negative thing? So if there there's a guy right he likes, let's say, cooking, cooking, would be considered by many as a feminine thing. What's the issue with cooking? So when we're looking at the man's masculinity sphere, they've constricted, they've got this very rigid definition of what masculinity is. It's about heading gym and running companies and the woman should sell her companies and the woman should like sell home and the man should provide. And I just I just think like I don't know they, they've gone a bit too extreme. What did you make? What was your key takeaway?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think firstly it was what mila said about it being like it being almost an internet phenomenon of this anti-woman hate, like anti-feminist hate, whatever you want to call it, which I think I would agree with. And secondly, it was that point as well that why do we have to force things to be masculine? Why can't we just accept that some things in the traditional sense are feminine? We don't need to change those over to now be masculine. We can just accept that they're feminine.
Speaker 3:But it's not bad to have feminine traits, like. Not everyone needs to be the most feminine person in the world, the most masculine man in the world. Like I said on the podcast, if you've got feminine traits, accept it, embrace it. If you want to be more masculine, like if it's not in your nature, I don't know if you should really force it on yourself. Like there are some people who are very masculine men, that's good for them. Maybe there are some people who are more feminine, that might be good for them, maybe I don't know. But just be yourself, improve yourself. But don't like change how we have come to describe the world, just to make yourself feel better yeah, like the.
Speaker 2:I mean like they're more important things than how big your biceps are and whether you have a six-pack or not, and how much you know. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Even if that is considered more masculine and you are not that. So what I don't understand, like, why do you need to get upset? Why do you need to get butt hurt? It's like an ego thing, almost. No, I am masculine, I am that relax. It's not that deep, it doesn't really matter yeah, now, that's very well said.
Speaker 2:We had some interesting comments on this podcast. Should we discuss them?
Speaker 3:yes, yes, some very interesting comments. Let me, let me find them okay. So there was a lot of people who, uh, disagreed with a lot of the things in the conversation, but this guy was, um, kind of agreeing with what we were saying, the general terms of our conversation. He said I think a lot of the discourse is pushing young men into the arms of misogynists. It seems to them that this is the only place that wants them. So kind of similar to what we were saying in the podcast that we need to like, not demonize young men If we want to advocate for these things. If you believe in feminism, if you think it's an important cause, the way to push that forward is not to then demonize men. Maybe they don't understand your point. You have to explain it to them. You can't just say you're an idiot or you shouldn't, you shouldn't have an opinion on this because you're a man, you're not a woman. I think all those things are so counterproductive. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I would rather be stuck with a bear in a forest rather than a man. Have you? Heard of that you know, 54 of women said in in britain that they would rather be stuck with a bear you know for in a forest like 54 is crazy, it's.
Speaker 3:It's interesting, though. Do you think if it actually in real life came to that decision, they would still choose the bear? Or do you think it's interesting, though? Do you think if it actually in real life came to that decision, they would still choose the bear, or do you think it's just like?
Speaker 3:I want to say this because it sounds better I hope it's more of that, because it's it's an impactful it's an impactful thing to say, uh, that you would rather, uh, be alone with a bear than a man, like it makes people think like whoa, like really, whereas like in real life. If it actually came to that decision, would you really choose that? I don't know. I saw one person commenting something quite interesting on this, but I don't think most people know this. Bears are not always very hostile. They can be quite easily avoided if you know what to do. So they were using this as a justification for most women choosing the bear over the man, but I don't think most women know how to avoid confrontation with the bear no, do men a bear yeah, exactly, no, no, no, do men like I think it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly no, do men Like? I think it's again just demonization of men. I think you know, like, for example, in the midst of the P Diddy hitting Casey, you know those videos that were leaked, that discussion kind of have you seen, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know this discussion kind of took a spark again. That yo. This is why we would rather be, you know, stuck with a bear and you know. But the thing is pd is not a representative. A lot of great men, you know that don't believe in what pd believes in, or that that don't act like how pd does. There are a lot of male great models and I think just demonizing men and saying all men are bad, you know, is not productive. And like vice versa, like just because a man has had a negative experience with a woman, that doesn't mean all women are trash and you know it's just call out the individuals. I think it's just not productive to be like just generalizing this, demonize a whole species yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:You are very right, and I think that situation always shows why you shouldn't idolize or make role models out of these types of people that you don't really know. They're just on the internet, they may have a specific talent, but that doesn't mean they're good people. Stop idolizing celebrities 100 so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that situation is so tragic, like that. Woman spoke about that in 2016 and no one took it seriously.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it turns out.
Speaker 2:Now there's a video footage and she wasn't lying well, you know what's mad?
Speaker 3:why has the hotel only just released the cctv footage?
Speaker 2:so the bodyguards were paid 50k for that's crazy yeah the security yeah I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3:They should be liable in some way. You should not take money to cover something like that up.
Speaker 2:That should be illegal yeah, that should be very illegal.
Speaker 3:I think they should suffer consequences for that yeah, because how can you do that, man that is so messed up?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's how bdd has gone away with it. It's either like blackmailing you know similar case to the epstein one or you just have blackmailing and money yeah, all right.
Speaker 3:Another person was very critical of feminism. He said society needs strong men, it needs strong feminism fights against that and is thus a major driving force in the destruction of society. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I don't know what kind of feminism he's on about. I thought feminism was a movement to empower women, like, for example, in Afghanistan, 4.3 million girls can't go to school just because they're girls. You know they're women and you know, in many professions women are not considered because they're going to get pregnant. Um, I recently had an interview at a job where the woman was the you know, uh, she was the manager and she told us I asked in the interview I was like have you experienced patriarchy in your career? She was like yeah, a lot of people didn't hire me because there's that pregnancy thing in marriage. They basically discard you. So I thought that's what feminism is about. I don't know feminism that looks down on masculinity. I think that's misandry. I think there's a confusion of in definition. A lot of young men have this hating on men, those. You can't call those women feminists. They just broken, I think. And vice versa, men who hate on women. There, you know, that's, that's misogyny, that's not masculinity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is interesting, though, I would say, because it's one of those terms, obviously, which doesn't have a one explicit definition.
Speaker 3:It is quite subjective and a lot of people, at least online nowadays, have taken it to other things other than just women's advocacy, other than just women's advocacy. So I can see why some people would think that, to be honest, because there are things pushing for like, uh, I mean masculinity, as we kind of talked about, is kind of stigmatized now, like it's always toxic masculinity and all of these terms which I think are deeply unhelpful, uh, that are kind of, um, propped up and pushed by feminists in the west, uh, which I think are so unhelpful, and then it leads to resentment, like this, like this person has clearly heard things coming from people who brand themselves as feminists that he does not like, and it happens the same. This kind of stuff happens with every movement, like the pro-palestinian movement. There's people who say dumb stuff and then the people on the other side pick that dumb stuff and say oh, look at these guys, they represent the whole movement, which is not the case.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I think people on the feminist side, I think the the rational voices, need to become the loud voices. They need to make themselves heard. Bro, if you go on the internet, it is all those like crazy opinions that are really getting pushed about. Feminism that does make people think like yo, they don't want any masculine men out there anymore it's funny how it's the same thing with like masculinity as well.
Speaker 1:You got like tate and all these red pill marin. You know just people with the wildest opinions getting the attention and you're like, oh my god, this is not what it is.
Speaker 2:This is not what masculinity is. Masculinity is something you know that's meant to be positive again like yeah you know I think that's very well said in this is every movement is a victim of this, you know all the religions are as well. You get a minority. That's extreme. But you then can't just go. Muslims are, you know, terrorist or all um? I don't know all jews um. You know they're anti-arabs or you know things like that, like you know yeah, yeah, exactly okay anti-semitism and all these things are not okay exactly I agree.
Speaker 3:Then this person, this other person, kind of commented along those same lines. He said I think the frustrating thing is most people would agree there are some toxic, man-hating feminists. I guess it's fine to say they don't represent feminism, but then you can't pick Andrew Tate and say that he represents men's rights either, which I completely agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think we said that. I think what we spoke about is misrepresentation of masculinity by tate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think mila just asked the question and then, uh, I think we said no and she said that's interesting what would you make of that yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't think andrew tate represents masculinity or men's rights for me personally. No one represents me other than myself. No one speaks for me other than myself, and that should be the case for everyone else. But everyone, most people, like to be told what to do. They like to be told what to think. Like I was listening to your, your guys's podcast on neanderthals and you kind of said like people strive for freedom almost. But I don't think most people do. To be honest, I think most people like they like rules, they like order, they like someone else to lead them and direct their life. Because if you have true freedom, it's a lot harder. You have to make every decision for yourself or you can just have Andrew Tate tell you what to do. It's easier, life's easy. You don't have to think, you just do what he says. It's like being a sheep is so much easier.
Speaker 2:But freedom is better. That's perfectly said there. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's very little accountability. There's a concept in psychology called a genetic shift. So have you heard of Milgram experiment, the one where it shocks people? When they go to crazy, to shocks the fake one right, the reason people say that they went to 450 volts, which you know which is lethal shock, you know, can hit someone.
Speaker 2:A lot of people said it's because the you know that person told me thing they told me to you know, shock the person. So they didn't feel like a sense of responsibility or like let's say your general right. Like, let's say, you got, you're in the army, and your general tells you go and do horrible things, right, you are like you know what he's telling me this, you know. So it's like it's that it is that agent, you're not the agent so you're shifting your agency.
Speaker 2:You're giving it to someone else, so it's that reminds me of that.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know that trolley problem where if you shift the trolley over, uh, the trolley is about to kill five people, or you can push the lever and then it only kills one person, and some people say that they don't want to personally push the trolley. They would rather the five people die, because then they're not doing it themselves. It's kind of similar to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's not exactly the same.
Speaker 3:It's not exactly the same now that I think about it, but it's kind of similar it touches on the idea of freedom right. Not freedom, sorry, yeah, freedom.
Speaker 2:you could say like you don't have to make a choice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, the choice is made for you in the first. The choice is made for you.
Speaker 2:yes, with freedom you have to make choice, otherwise it's anarchy. Make choices as well especially difficult choices. Yeah, because if you're the only person to blame, then you know you can't say all the government, you have to blame yourself, and humans don't tend to like that exactly speaking of not wanting to blame yourself.
Speaker 3:We spoke about colonialism with julie on the next podcast, which also got a lot of attention, but let's talk about the full podcast first. So what were your key takeaways from my?
Speaker 2:key takeaway was I mean it's not quite related to that conversation about colonialism, but just banning social. You know, smartphones in schools. I think that's a that's. I think that's very important man, because kids have no attention span. I think it's very dangerous. I've seen too many kids with you know that say wild things. You know and they've, they've heard it on like social media, you can tell yeah, bro, the next.
Speaker 3:Like adam grant told us, every generation says the next generation is doomed and horrible. But, bro, this next generation is actually I'm worried, I'm concerned. You sent me. You sent me an instagram reel though today. Well, I think, what was it from? Oh, it was the mike tyson and jake paul press conference. Bro, our little kid was just saying crazy things. What?
Speaker 2:is going on. Yeah, now it's actually scary, like I saw four year old. Uh sorry, no, he's seven, six, seven. You know that andrew tate, meme don't like be there, don't vape, or something like that he's saying that I'm like, why are you seeing andrew tate online? A girl six year old on train singing nikki minaj song.
Speaker 3:I'm like what is happening yeah, you know, like majority of people now in our age demographic will not see that as a problem. I think with a young four-year-old singing nikki minaj lyrics, I think majority of people would say, oh, so what? Yeah?
Speaker 2:that's scary man, I can't lie yeah, but let's get it back to colonialism, I think, um, the interesting thing there was that she's talked about age limit, that how certain age group. Like you know, these are very heavy topics and you have to look at the intellectual development of kids. But then where do you draw the line, like what age you know when? When do you have to then start telling them you know what you're born in britain, but your ancestors, or you know, the people that have built this country have done horrible things. When do you break the news to them? As was was the burning questions I was left with after that conversation yeah, that's a.
Speaker 3:That's a good point. I think it's interesting because this one person left quite a long comment uh, I'm just reading through it now. I think it's it's an american person and they were. They were frustrated that we were making the assertion or Julie was making the assertion that kids at a particular age would not be able to understand these concepts properly, and this person was saying that that is a ridiculous point to make, that kids are underestimated, basically, and that we should be teaching them things like that from a young age. Um, specifically, she was referring to 11 year olds.
Speaker 3:However, I don't know, I don't know if that is particularly particularly accurate. Everyone knows your brain doesn't like really develop. It always keeps developing, but it doesn't fully develop, as they say, till you're like 28 or something around those ages. So for an 11-year-old to fully grasp complex problems, I don't know if it is the best way to go about it. Especially, I wouldn't want a white British person to hate the country they grew up in and think that they're evil. I just want them to understand the nuance that one group of people is not superior over another group people.
Speaker 3:Your people have done bad, as well as all these other people in the world have done bad as well, but also other people have done good. Your people have done good, but that's kind of difficult to explain. When you're telling them about how they went over there and they like, stole everyone's land, they stole everyone's riches, all of this stuff, you will think these people are just evil. They're inherently bad, because that's kind of how you see the world when you're a kid. That's how most adults nowadays not even nowadays most adults see the world in that way as well good versus bad, good versus bad. So for you to say that an 11 year old would be fully able to grasp these concepts and get their head around it properly, I just think it's a bit naive.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, it can really backfire. I can't lie. I think the most important things that should be taught is maybe these basic principles that not everyone, I don't know, diving into the complicated history which you can't fully cover in a curriculum. Again, like you can put a lot of hate into that kid's heart.
Speaker 2:You know, and the thing is, kids are impressionable they're. You can manipulate them quite easily. So I don't know who's been teaching these histories. You know, because a lot of people might be like, let's say, like it talks about colonialism, but one of the teachers doesn't really want to teach that, and then they start twisting it to the kids yeah, even things like that.
Speaker 3:It's like it's very misconstrued yeah I think element of these things should be brought in throughout teaching, like little parts of all these different things like colonialism and all of that. But to actually have like a you know how we would have like topics that would be fully covered for your gcses or whatever. To have it covered in that way. I just don't know how helpful that really is, to be honest yeah, it has to be done correctly, man. I think just at that age, at that age yeah I think you you need.
Speaker 2:They're very good right. They teach you about this stuff.
Speaker 3:They're very um even 16 year olds are calm, but 11 year olds like come on, my little cousin is 11 year old right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, and he's a smart. Yeah, he's a smart kid brains, man like you know it's like.
Speaker 2:You can't, you don't want to like, introduce dark concept to these kids of genocides with churchill.
Speaker 1:You know all these people were responsible for actually yeah, someone said like oh, there was another comment about churchill. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:It was the bengal famine, and someone's like churchill didn't cause. Cause the Bengal farm and do your research. Other people obviously replied to him and said he was incorrect. But basically this guy's point was something along the lines of those rations were needed for military personnel for the British Empire, and military personnel were always prioritized for food. However, you go into a different country, you take their resources and you take their food for your own military personnel and then 4 million people die as a result of that and you say, oh no, that's not our fault, it's just, we always prioritize our military. Did they consent for you to take their food and give it to their, to your military? Like? It's so ridiculous, man, I don't understand how people like this cannot see their own bias. How are you making excuse, an excuse for decision making that led to the death deaths of over four million? And then there's other guys.
Speaker 3:Churchill was extremely racist. Was he Asking a rhetorical question? You need to do more research. Yes, he was extremely racist. You've clearly looked into what he said about groups of people such as Indians and Pashtuns. He called us animals. He said we were like the worst people on earth. Just because we, we wouldn't think that we were subordinate to white people. He called us animals and he's all we don't.
Speaker 2:They don't know their place in the world this is why we would be saying history, these things need to be essentially taught this is why you know you need just because of that one on world war ii, right, you know?
Speaker 1:doesn't mean you're an angel like you know so people.
Speaker 3:People cannot think of two things at once. A person can have done good things and they can be a bad person. Yeah, they can have done good things and bad can be a bad person. Yeah, they can have done good things and bad things. Just a couple of quotes from Sir Winston Churchill slit eyes and pig tails he said that he hated people with slit eyes and pig tails. To him People from India were quote the beastliest people in the world next to the Germans, and quote. And then he admitted that he, quote did not really think that black people were as capable or as efficient as white people. End quote. And yeah, the guy in our comments saying Churchill was racist was he Question mark. Yeah, sorry, we just had some technical difficulties there.
Speaker 3:Khashoggi has promised it won't happen again. Khashoggi has promised it won't happen again. But we went on a little bit of a rant about Winston Churchill. But now there is another common theme with the comments as well is along the lines of this guy's comments. Why isn't it taught about the Ottoman Empire that they were colonizers just like the British Empire? Okay, you should know about the Ottoman Empire that they were colonizers just like the British Empire. Ok, you should know about the Ottoman Empire as well that it was also bad that they were colonizers the same as the British. But when I'm talking to a British history teacher about the British curriculum directed to British school students, why would I focus on the Ottoman Empire and not the British Empire? It's so ridiculous. Why would I teach them about someone else's history before I teach them about my own history?
Speaker 2:And then you can argue what about some other country? What about, like? You can never satisfy these people?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's, it's ridiculous. Just because another country is doing something bad or has done something bad doesn't mean you should do the same thing like other people. Come russia and china, don't teach about their dark history. And yes, you say that russia and china are bad, totalitarian, undemocratic countries that are evil. So then why are you putting yourself on the same pedestal as them? Why? Why is that your benchmark then? Yeah, and just because they don't teach.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean it's a good thing exactly the point we were trying to make.
Speaker 2:We just because you know we are speaking to a brit, british history teacher we want the curriculum to be better. That does not mean we don't want it better across the whole planet. Exactly so. If I'm anti-war, if I'm speaking against the genocide happening in Palestine, that also means I'm anti-war everywhere, anywhere, whether it's between whatever race, whatever religion, whatever color your skin is, it doesn't matter. That means I'm anti-war everywhere, anywhere, whether it's between whatever race, whatever religion, whatever color your skin is, it doesn't matter. That means I'm anti-war.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly this whataboutism is just ridiculous that people love to do in every situation. You're speaking about the genocide happening in Gaza. What about the genocide happening in Sudan? Or what about the Uighur muslims in china? Yes, that that's also horrible. I don't understand why people think, by pointing to other atrocities, you want me to think I'm not as bad because other people are worse. Imagine that being your best defense. Look at these other people that have killed more people yeah, it's not, it's not it's not your own defense, like no, I'm not doing anything bad.
Speaker 3:It's yeah, but those guys are a little worse. Like come on, what kind of defense is that?
Speaker 1:well, 100 and it's. No, it's actually ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a typical example of performative activism. It's like you know, let's say you spoke about global issue. I'm like, oh, what about speak there? How do you want this person to be every day like tweeting about what's happening in North Korea and then all Japan something bad happened there. Like, how are you going to actually solve problems? I think it's very easy to speak about many problems and be distracted in every way and do all the whatabouts, but how about we focus on one discussion, have a nuanced discussion, have an in-depth discussion about a particular topic, very, very like you know, have the parameters just around that conversation, because how else are you going to come to an answer if I'm like, what about Ottoman Empire? I don't have information About Ottoman Empire. Yeah, they, they've done horrible things In the past, but what? We're speaking about? British history?
Speaker 3:Yeah, with a British history teacher. What about Chinese history we're trying to learn from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's ridiculous. I think, yeah, what about ism? And also I don't know what to call it and ism, I don't know what to call it and ism, I don't know. You know what. Some people like you make a nuanced point and they're like and yeah, what you can say about anything. Okay, us government is printing money out of thin air and, well, it's gonna affect lives, it's gonna, you know, you can have another recession, great depression. You know this is happening, a genocide happening in a palestine. Well, young kids are dying, like you can say this whole and like what?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's just lazy. Just have a proper discussion. There's no need to do these stupid, these stupid things, but just belittle someone.
Speaker 2:Do you think you're really belittling someone with that? And if you make a good, someone makes a point and you're like and yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's just very ridiculous. I think, yeah, let's, so we move on to the next part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's move on to the next one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're ranting yeah, so the final podcast for this month was with goat gamalia fi, a european boxing champion, team gb boxer, also the coach who helped me win my boxing fight. He coached me for, I think, seven or six weeks leading up to my boxing fight. Um, and yeah, here's the difference between me winning that fight and losing that fight. So, yeah, shout out to him, because obviously very good coach, but also great person and we had a great conversation. So what were your key takeaways from that?
Speaker 2:my key takeaway was about when he realized that world champion was, you know, that world title was out of his reach, how, how he just came to accept that and he didn't stay in the sport, like you know, just for the money.
Speaker 2:And you know boxing is dangerous, right, you can get seriously hurt. You see many boxers when they, you know, you can tell, like you know, their heyday is over, like they're not going to reach that echelon, right, and then they keep on going there Even after they become world champions, like fighters, like muhammad ali, and they just don't know how to just call it a stop and then later on they have dementia, they have horrible, you know, brain problems, memory problems, you know it's happened to so many boxers where they have speech difficulties with speech. The guy just, I think you know he well, he believes he left the sport at the right time because he was in it for the, you know, for the titles, and when that was out of thinking, he just accepted it. And what was quite interesting is like what bothers him is like the people he lost to he could be. So that was quite that's, that's quite fascinating, to be honest yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:Another thing that is really interesting as well is that there's three of them who made it to a very, very high level. So you know, when people have those conversations, is it talent or is it luck, or is it hard work like what is it? They did it not once, not twice, but three times. I think both his other brothers, galal and cal, were both, uh, olympic champions, weren't they olympic medalists?
Speaker 2:so the younger it was, it has been olympic gold medalist and the older isn't. I don't. I think he may have competed olympic. I don't know if he has a medal. I don't think he does he. He's got some other kind of medals, but he became a world champion. I think it's WBA. I think it's WBA or IBC it could be one of those. So that's a world title. He got to a world title level.
Speaker 3:That's what I mean, it is just incredibly impressive that they managed to do it three times, and all while being raised by a single mother.
Speaker 2:so again even more impressive. So incredible, man box boxers, man, they, they probably know the concept of pain like no one else. Like, imagine, like what you Imagine doing that as a career? Yeah, do you like, because you have had a fight right like a full-on in front of a crowd, not just like a sparring. And how do you look at it? Do you look at pro boxing? You're like, wow, has your admiration gone up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just. I think even when I watch the fights with other people who watch my fight now, they're like these guys are doing 12 rounds because of how difficult those three rounds were. Like I only did a quarter, less than a quarter, because my time, my rounds were two-minute rounds. These guys did three-minute, 12 rounds of three minutes, bro, that is incredible. It is crazy and it also makes sense now why professional fighters also build up. They do like four rounds, six rounds, 10 rounds, 12 rounds. They don't go straight into deep end with 12 rounds because I don't know what it is if it's the crowd or whatever. In sparring, you just don't get as tired. In the fight for the first round, like I was gone, partially maybe because of my illness as well, which I'll speak about, uh, when we release that boxing video. But it's just. Yeah, the admiration is has gone, definitely gone up a level, because it is not easy.
Speaker 3:And just the mental side of things as well. Being in there I don't know if every person who's in the ring thinks this way, but just thinking like all the rounds slipping away from me or I need to do more, I'm so exhausted. How am I gonna do more more? Just thinking all these thoughts while punches are coming at you and you have to think about blocking and punching back and all that. It's quite an experience, but it's really fun. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also the anxiety that family must go through every time. Yeah, you know, because you had head guard on 16 ounce gloves. Those guys have no head guards and they're 10 ounce gloves and they are they. They hit with every ounce of their body like their techniques are pretty much near perfect so for a human to endure that kind of suffering man yeah is.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say it's one of the most difficult things in the world because people go through like terrible, terrible things. But for a self-inflicted thing, like for a hobby, for a career, yes, probably I would.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I asked amal this uh, one time when he was training me, I was like. I was like, is boxing the most difficult thing you've ever done? I was like what's the most difficult thing you've ever done? I was like what's the most difficult thing you've experienced in life? He was like boxing. Yeah man, the whole idea of like Performing in front of thousands of people and you're just getting Leathered, man.
Speaker 1:This is why I love boxers.
Speaker 2:I think they're like a great example of what mental toughness is and how tough humans can be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, exactly From my thought. I didn't even think about the negative side. I just thought, oh, this is going to be so sick, it's going to be so fun. I've got to perform the best I can. But I think there's an added pressure to that as well. It's not just about, oh, I have to win. It's about I have to perform well. And then in the ring, when you're not doing as well as you thought, you're like what do I do?
Speaker 2:I imagine it's a world title shot now exactly your whole life instead of a thousand people. There's now 10 or 20 000 people yeah, alive in the crowd and there are millions watching online.
Speaker 3:Yeah I think. I think it's actually be more difficult, more pressure on the way up to a title fight where you know one loss can just finish your career. If you're Anthony Joshua, you lose to Ruiz, you know you're getting a rematch, another big fight if you win, that fight just keeps going. If you are like five fights away from a title fight, six fights away, and then you lose. Or if you're two fights even away from your first title fight, six fights away, and then you lose. Or if you're two fights even away from your first title fight and you lose, oh that's. That's scary for a lot of people.
Speaker 3:That's their entire like career prospect maybe gone down the drain because that oh that, oh, is so important in boxing, which is what we spoke to gamal about. It adds a lot more value and you've got to remember these boxers like Gamal said again, they're not getting paid an incredible amount of money until they reach world title level and then still at the lower weights, they're still not getting paid as much as most people think. So every fight really really matters on the way up, like, for example, such a small pie, yeah, for example tyson fury loses now, he's still a multi, multi-millionaire.
Speaker 3:He still can get a rematch with usic, even if he loses. He loses to Usyk again, he can still fight Joshua for another massive fight. He's been a world champion. But, bro, imagine, imagine. You're close, you're that close, you're almost there, and then you slip. The pressure there must be when you're. You know, if I win one or two more fights, my whole life can change. I just need to win, yeah, this, one or two more fights and then that's crazy, experiencing that levels of anxiety like for like.
Speaker 2:I watched Gamal's European bout right right the fight towards the end. He's just, he lets it out. Man's screaming right Relief. That feeling you cannot buy it, man. It must be special, it must be one of the most special feelings. I think it will be similar to when you know Neanderthal is in, like you know maybe top 50 or top 20 podcasts in the world. Right Inshallah, you know inshallah, right inshallah. Feel like that, right let's hope so.
Speaker 3:We need to get you onto Misfits now. That's the goal all that with the help of Gamal. We need to get you beating on those men working hard guys, yeah, but anything else from that podcast that you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 2:that's all, brother. Yeah, it's been a great experience and it was fun doing online podcasts. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would yeah, it is fun.
Speaker 3:We'll see what people say about it if they enjoy it as well. Um, if so, maybe I think it's good to carry on the reflection podcasts in this way, because then we can react to the comments and everything as they come in on each podcast, because when we film in advance we can't really react to people. What people have said about the for the last two podcasts of the month? Um, yeah, so as long as everyone else is happy with this, we can keep the reflections online yeah, it takes a lot of pressure off us, yeah yeah, it saves a lot of hassle for the, for audio listeners.
Speaker 3:Of course, it won't be a problem because we're going to get the mics and everything sorted in the future, so the audio quality will be a lot better. Khushal had his mic, but it ran out. Something happened More technical difficulties. It's the first one, guys. Yeah, yeah, but next time, time, everything will be all sorted, maybe the video quality will get better as well. We're going to try to fix that. So, yeah, we'll definitely be doing more of these online, as long as you guys are ok with it. To be honest, it doesn't matter if you're ok with it or not. We're doing it anyway. This isn't a democracy what is it?
Speaker 2:Aaron guys thank you for listening. You're virtuously singing.
Speaker 3:That was all just platitudes, gruts I forgot what it's called. I was all just that. I was just saying you've got an option, just so you feel happy. You don't have an option, oh my god Alright China. China, china, russia, all of them, china right they want Britain to be like that it's all wrong listen anyway, thank you for listening. Thanks for joining Khushal. Yeah, thank you for joining Wally you're welcome.
Speaker 2:All the best, goodbye.
