Last Neanderthals Podcast
Stories that shape futures. Last Neanderthals is a podcast dedicated to learning, evolving and becoming our best selves. Evolve with us!
Last Neanderthals Podcast
Muslims are Playing the "Victim Card"?
Is it reasonable to expect an entire community to constantly apologize for the actions of a few? On this episode of the Last Neanderthals podcast, we tackle audience's pressing questions about the Muslim community's condemnation of extremist acts. From the 7-7 bombings to the Manchester Arena attack, we discuss the often unseen and unheard condemnations from Muslims and why demanding endless apologies is not only unfair but also counterproductive. This nuanced conversation aims to dismantle pervasive misconceptions and foster a respectful dialogue.
The episode takes a sobering turn as we confront the grim reality of violence and discrimination faced by Muslims in the UK. Attacks on individuals, hotels, and mosques have left many innocent people living in fear. We analyze the problematic narrative that Muslims are "playing the victim" and stress the critical need to differentiate between innocent community members and terrorists. The discussion also delves into the lack of public condemnation from Muslim leaders and the perceived double standards in UK policing, calling for a balanced and just approach to these issues.
We explore freedom of speech, public protests, and the absence of widespread violence despite differing opinions. The conversation then shifts to a detailed examination of police brutality at Manchester airport and the systemic biases faced by ethnic minorities. Highlighting the urgent need to address multiple forms of injustice, we advocate for equal treatment and underscore the peaceful nature of the Muslim community despite prevailing prejudices. Join us for this enlightening episode as we respond to audience’s concerns and promote a constructive and open dialogue.
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Welcome to the Last Neanderthals podcast, as Wally zooms in and out. Wally, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:Today we're just going to go through some of our comments on the videos we did regarding the riots and respond to a few of the people. One person in particular, trevor. He had, I mean, a good kind of back and forth with us. So, yeah, that's what we're doing now. I think should we start with trevor, go through his yeah, because you know we can actually talk to trevor.
Speaker 1:The rest of them, the rest of them, uh, they will report us in a box without even watching the video yeah, trevor seems reasonable, kind of I would say.
Speaker 2:I think he's still got some misconceptions which we will address.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you're watching this as well, trevor, because mainly this video is for you a day, every day, dedicated for you, the things we do for you.
Speaker 2:So oh so, oh fuck. I just went off the video by accident.
Speaker 1:You'll get fired later, not this episode.
Speaker 2:My voice if you heard that. A first comment, by the way, is drop your religion, dot dot dot. Life is good without it. On the video where we're talking about the Southport riots and people targeting Muslims, but never mind, let's move on. So Trevor starts off by saying I know I'm probably wasting my breath on you guys, but why don't you see things as they are? Why play the victim all the time? Why are you surprised that the native people in Britain overreact when something like this happens, given the record? Do you remember 7-7? Or the murder of Lee Rigby? Or the Manchester Arena bombing? Or the Muslim grooming gangs, or all the other stuff, isis brides, etc.
Speaker 2:I could forgive the Muslim community if I heard a single peep of condemnation coming from Muslims. I have never seen a protest against jihad or against extremism by moderate Muslims. So I think millions of people naturally assume that if you're silent on these issues, then you must concur. Tell me that you think that this is unreasonable. If such things happened in a Muslim country, perpetrated by some minority, say Hindus or Christians, in, say, pakistan, how would that go down? If you think I have a point, please say so. So the last Neanderthals account responded. Account responded saying like you've got fair concerns, because all of those acts that he mentioned are, like, completely despicable and they've been committed by people who claim to be muslim, but I think it's important to know that people of all different backgrounds commit horrible acts. Like we said to Trevor in our reply, do you also expect Christian people or white people to broadcast their condemnation for the KKK everywhere they go? Every conversation must start with sorry for the KKK the way he's. They're not a part of us. I do think that is quite an unreasonable request.
Speaker 2:However, muslims should and do condemn these actions in their conversations, in their everyday life, and a lot of public figures do condemn them publicly.
Speaker 2:Um, but if you're not a public figure, like I don't see, nobody does that. Nobody just goes out onto the street and says, hey, I'm sorry for what that guy who maybe kind of looks like me, committed yesterday. I think that's not a good precedent to set as well, like, if this person doesn't align with my values, if I don't see him as a muslim, even I, that burden really shouldn't be on Muslims, I think, to publicly do that, because it then does group you in with those people, whereas we don't want to be grouped in with these extremists. And the other thing is, I think it is important to have these conversations with Muslims if you have these concerns, which we must. Applaud Trevor for that, because he's left this comment reaching out to Muslim people for this to get a different perspective. But like I've never spoke to a Muslim, I'm a Muslim. I know a lot of Muslims, obviously, who said, oh no, those, those extremists are good.
Speaker 1:We support them. You had this move against them. Your dad had a death threat from the Taliban.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your family was targeted. My family was targeted. So obviously Trevor doesn't know that context, but within that context it is very disheartening. Like most of the people who are targeted by these extremist groups are muslims, because they come from muslim countries, they try and take over muslim countries with their underlying goal all almost always being political, so they don't care if they're killing tens of thousands, thousands of muslims. They do it. It's not like oh, they're on our team, they're on our side.
Speaker 1:They well, no, they're killing us. They blew up 200 schools in swat valley. That was just where me and wally are from. Just where me and wally are from, they even bombed the muslims yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 2:It is disheartening to see that people have this idea that muslims in general support this kind of behavior because, like, keep in mind, there are two billion muslims in the world. It's probably less than 0.1 percent of Muslims who commit these actions. And I would say that is still probably an overestimate, because one percent is what? 20 million, 0.1 percent is two million. There's not two million terrorists in the world is there that would be insane. So it's probably less than 0.01% of Muslims commit these kind of actions. The reason you feel like all Muslims are responsible or support this is genuinely because of the media's framing In the West for the past 20 years. The word terrorist has become synonymous with Muslim, anyone else who commits an act of terror. They're mentally ill, they've got some other motivations. They're not a terrorist. Any muslim, any muslim, any brown looking guy, commits an act of terror. He's a terrorist. So it it creates this idea in your mind that these people are just all the same. They're all lumped into one group. They're all terrorists. They're. These people are just all the same. They're all lumped into one group. They're all terrorists. They're all barbaric, whereas all the other people they've got excuses. And when other groups of people commit these actions. They're not highlighted as much. Like, uh, trevor mentioned the grooming gang thing, which is a very, very disgusting thing that happened and I think still happens in the uk. That needs needs to be dealt with swiftly by the police, like I don't know how these gangs keep getting away with this, and I think there was that one case in rochdale with the police where the police actually like covered it up somehow, which again adds to these growing suspicions that people have, which are understandable because that action is so despicable, like imagine doing that to innocent little children. However, tommy robinson and the media frames that, like all of these types of groups, are just muslim, which is not the case.
Speaker 2:Group-based sexual violence against children is mostly perpetrated by white people where it obviously makes sense. Most of the country is white. However, in child sexual abuse in general in the country, white people are slightly overrepresented. They commit 89% of those actions, whereas they only represent 82 of the population. Asian people commit six percent of those actions, where they make up nine percent of the population. Yet tommy robinson and these other right-wing figures they're not even right wing they. Tommy robinson is definitely far right. I wouldn't even group him in with the right wing, because there's a lot of very fair-minded people on the right side of politics as well, but they highlight every single case of a muslim doing this kind of thing. So to the average person like trevor following along, it seems like they're the only ones doing this. They're committing this more than any other group, and that's why we need to get them out of the country, when that is not really the reality and just like how it'd be unfair for us to now assume every white person is, you know, guilty of those crimes.
Speaker 1:Those you know, those people who we have to look at the socio-economic context, the education, their how they've been brought up, the environment. They've been brought up. It's like you. I think it's a more productive way to look at those individuals and those individual cases rather than like generalising and okay, it must be all the Muslims.
Speaker 1:I think it's such a lazy way of understanding the evil that takes place and I think we create more evil by isolating people. They feel further isolated, they become defensive. So even if people like Trevor have like or valid points, because you're literally targeting and boxing people in like Tommy Robinson, let's say I'm not saying Trevor's doing that, but then they become defensive. Then they don't want to listen to you, even if you might be right or you might have some valid points and you need sitting down with your fair concerns. But because you're boxing people in, it's all the Muslims, send them back on the boat. You don't want to have that dialogue with them. You don't. You're not even trying to understand what their context is right. If you're not trying to understand their context, why should they. They should make the effort to understand your context. That's what they should do, but it's very difficult when you're being attacked from the right center because it creates a disconnect.
Speaker 2:Why would I listen to a person who's just telling me I'm a bad person? I know I'm not, because when you say all Muslims and things like that, it will make you think oh wait, he's talking about me as well. I've not done anything wrong, so this guy must be lying or he must be exaggerating. Why would I even take him seriously? But there are important issues to address and if you do them in the right way, everyone is going to be on your side. But then, for example, the Southport killings when three little girls are murdered by a person who was not even an immigrant, but yet you go and target hotels with asylum seekers and burn them to the ground and you say, oh, we're just protesting against illegal immigration. The southport killings had nothing to do with illegal immigration. He was born in this country, unless what you really mean is you just don't like anyone who is not white being in the country, because that is literally, from that incident, all that's all it could be. He was not an immigrant, he was not an illegal immigrant, he was just a black man, he wasn't white, and that led to widespread riots all over the country about immigration. Like I would appeal to people like trevor, who do seem fair-minded. How does that make sense? How does that make sense? And the first riots happened outside mosques when he wasn't a muslim. Clearly there's some kind of bias going on there. Someone's pulling the strings to make you feel this way about a particular group of people when they haven't even committed the action that they're making you think they have.
Speaker 2:And then the the stabbing happened in Stirling Scotland by a white man. They also blamed that on a Muslim. Turned out it wasn't a Muslim, it was a white man. The man turned up to the vigil for the three little girls who'd been murdered with a machete. Imagine this is to mourn these three little girls, pay respect to their families and he turned up with a machete. Again, everyone goes and blames muslims. Turned out he wasn't a muslim. This is, I think these things are really important to point out because it just shows the little things. Every single day. There'll be thousands of people who will not know now that that guy with the machete wasn't actually a muslim, that that guy who stabbed those people in sterling scotland wasn't a muslim. Some people might still not even know that the southport killer wasn't a muslim. So these lies they build on top of each other and present a picture that all muslims are bad.
Speaker 1:Everything that goes wrong in this country is muslims fault let's say if he was a self-proclaimed muslim, right, even though in in chronically the states, if you kill one human, you've killed the rest of humanity. Is that? Is that how the population? Should they? Should they take law into their own hands and burn libraries? What is that burning a library or lacking a mascot to do with that?
Speaker 2:right exactly.
Speaker 1:It's just not the right way of reacting at all, like simple as no wonder which, where this individual, which group he was from. And another thing I want to touch on on what Trevor said is like, oh, what this what about is? And what about this? What about that? Right now, the country right, all these minorities, these far, far, far-right groups, the heinous crimes they committed, we must speak about that. If they were against another group, god forbid, something happened against Jews tomorrow, we will speak about that, whether it's knife crime, like in our previous podcast we have spoken about, like, let's say, if there's been stabbing cases and things like that. But just because we are highlighting this problem doesn't mean we don't care about the other ones, doesn't mean we don't care about the what you call it, the problems committed by self-proclaimed muslims that are then going killing people, which is very anti-islamic, who are banning girls education, which is very anti-Islamic. Many I can keep on going just because we're speaking about this context of misinformation against Muslims and how that led to so much violence.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a pressing, urgent matter at hand hotels are being set alight, libraries are being set alight, people are being attacked by mobs. That video of that one man getting pulled out of his taxi and people are shouting they're killing him, they're stabbing him. No one's doing anything to stop it. They're all video recording this mob attacking this guy all on his own. These are urgent things.
Speaker 2:This is a very dangerous aspect and that is one thing that was disappointing in Trevor's comment because he said Muslims are playing the victim. I think that is really disheartening. At a time where mosques are being attacked, those kind of things are happening, where the guy's getting dragged out of his car, beat up by a whole mob just for being brown. Where that one man is walking down the street. He looks uh, he doesn't even. He looks like he's uh, not even from a muslim country. He just looks brown. They punch him for no reason. Everyone laughs. He has to go back again. Like I said, mosques attacked, libraries burnt, hotels burnt.
Speaker 2:To say muslims are playing the victim in this situation is ridiculous. This is not a war between like, oh, you guys attack these innocent people in the manchester arena bombing. We condemn that as well. Innocent muslims haven't got anything to do with that, when it's not like those people who did that attack are playing victim. It's the innocent people who have nothing to do with any of this who are now being attacked and they're saying, please, like, help us. We haven't done anything wrong. It's not the manchester arena terrorists or the 7-7 terrorists or the Lee Rigby murderer or the Southport murderer who are complaining. It's innocent, everyday Muslims who are just trying to live their life, like you are, who are being attacked. It's being framed almost as if it's one civilization versus another. It's just the Muslims versus everyone else, whereas it should be good people, good human beings, versus evil, good people versus murderers, versus terrorists versus killers. No matter what your ethnicity is, no matter what religion you follow. That's not what should separate you. It should be like your character, your personality, who you are as a human being.
Speaker 1:That's perfectly said. I've got nothing more to add. And then I think at the end of that comment, yeah.
Speaker 2:At the end of that comment as well, he says like how do you think, uh, what do you think people would do if, like a minority such as hindus, were doing this in pakistan or another muslim country? No one surely no one thinks that they should attack the minorities. I don't understand what kind of justification that is. Are you saying that in Pakistan, if a minority does something wrong, that native Pakistani people should rise up and write and burn down libraries? Is that what we're advocating for here? That was, again, a very confusing part, but overall, like I said, it's very positive having these conversations and I don't mean to like ridicule, but it is an emotional subject. It is a touchy subject because we live in this country. We think britain is an amazing country with amazing values. However, what we saw last week, it's not representative of that at all and it's very disheartening to see.
Speaker 1:And we want to feel safe, just like you. You know women. They weren't going into jobs. I know a lot of my friends. They weren't going into jobs just because some random person might come in and just harass them and things of that nature. How is that right? We've got nothing to do with this situation whatsoever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tens of thousands of Muslims all over the country were not leaving their houses because they were fearful, and I don't know at what point we, when we, got to a point where we believed that was acceptable, that people should just live in fear within this country. I don't, I personally don't think that is okay at all. But yeah, you were speaking about Trevor's reply to our response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you replied. Then what did he say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you replied. Then what did he say? So Trevor says condemn the acts of violence and criminality that I pointed out. Perhaps you're right, perhaps not, but it is safe to say that we have not heard any public condemnations of such actions coming from either official Muslim community leaders or public demonstrations of outrage from the community. Where are the not-in-our-name protests?
Speaker 2:It is difficult to believe that Muslim people are not accustomed to protesting or making their feelings known in this country. In fact, the opposite is true. For example, the pro-Palestine protests that have graced our streets week after week shows the opposite. One could go back as far as the Salman Rushdie business to see that Muslims are not shy to make their opinions known on the streets of Britain, but, as I said, not a peep in face of any of the issues I raised previously. Another issue you could consider that led up to the recent riots not the stabbings, but what came before that was the Manchester airport incident. Everybody saw the bias reporting where one clip of the police officer kicking the guy in the head, and I'm sure that everybody has now seen the incident that led up to this. No white British person could have gotten away with that and still be walking free now.
Speaker 2:This is what I mean by asking you to not play the victim card. I'm not justifying anything or any act of violence that occurred against anybody during and after the riot. I'm just saying that there is two-tier policing going on in this country, which is only liable to make things worse for everybody. I think it would be better to at least try and exercise a bit more balance in your videos. You have to take into account cause and effect. I'm sick of hearing the terms far right repeated at every opportunity, which dismisses all concerns on the other side that I have expressed and is the method of the political establishment to blame this or that individual, do you?
Speaker 1:want to start. I haven't lived in the UK long enough, but let's say there were these Muslim groups which there were that has done heinous things in the name of Islam. Of course Muslims should condemn it. If they haven't been protesting, they should protest enough against terrorism committed in their name. I don't disagree with that point. Yeah, and the Salman Rushdie one.
Speaker 2:I think there is a bit of nuance there, to be honest, because, for example, the pro-palestine protests is, as it's, seen as a systematic injustice by the government, by the people in power, against a minority, by people who are not in power. So israel is one of the biggest superpowers in the world and they're directly supported and funded by the UK. The UK actually established Israel as a country in 1948, and in 1917 they declared that Israel would be a country. They didn't do any sort of negotiation, no, nothing. They just declared that this land, which once belonged to a particular group of people, will now belong to another group of people again, injustice. So when you see these people protesting against this, it's it's to protest the actions of their own government, the people in charge that can bring about change. Protesting against terrorism abroad. The the thing with that is these groups are condemned. If I'm, let's say, a murderer goes out, murders someone do? We see protests for every murder in the uk I like these cases, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like with the manchester bombing thing, I don't know it's like to what extent does like how heinous is the crime need to be for people for you to be like. You know what people should be coming out I don't think that's a tricky one I.
Speaker 2:I think that's just not the purpose that protests serve. It's not to say that something is heinous there. There could be marches of solidarity. There could be people coming out in support of the families of people who were murdered, which tends to happen at vigils, and things like that. However, protest doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:A protest would make sense if something like that happened and then the government supported it or uplifted it or turned a blind eye to it, supported it or uplifted it or turned a blind eye to it, or if it was more systematic, or if the murderer was spared prison, some sort of injustice occurred. But if everyone condemns it, if the guy goes to prison, we all know it's a bad action, no one's supporting it, no one's giving the guy money. Protest doesn't seem right. You're right. There should be like marches of solidarity. Muslim community should come out with their, their fellow community members, and say that this is not right. We need to stand together. All of this, that should happen and that does happen. That like, factually, objectively, muslim community members do come out and support their other community members. When things like that do happen.
Speaker 2:Muslim community members publicly do condemn these sorts of actions. Just because you don't haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. That again goes to the media framing and the narrative framing. However, to protest something where the guy has faced justice, it doesn't make sense. I would agree with you. If a muslim commits some sort of heinous act and then doesn't face justice for it, yeah, everyone should protest, not riot. Everyone should protest and say this isn't fair.
Speaker 2:This is unjust. However, why would we, for example, protest like something happening in this country or something happening in syria, where my government doesn't support that? I don't support that. We are aligned. Protests happen usually against the government, against the system, against something that is in just, unjust. Unjust, so that, to me, seems redundant.
Speaker 1:I think you helped me understand as well in what context does protesting actually become beneficial and make sense? I think the context he's talking about, solidarity, makes more sense and I think, especially in the manchester arena, the muslims did show solidarity. Your friend talia, yeah, uh, is it talia correct? Yes, she was on our podcast. She was in that bombing and you know it was the, the trauma she had gone through. You know, we, we felt like, of course, we didn't feel guilty because we didn't commit those actions, but we did feel a solidarity with her, like you know how much she had gone through and you know, and understanding the, the trauma, many more, these families who lost their family members, you know what they must have gone through, because we have lost our family, friends and things like that to also terrorism. So you know, we, we get it. We, we get it.
Speaker 1:It's um, very heartbreaking. Should we move on to his next point? So, thank you for clarifying that. Then he he starts speaking about thalman rushdie, which was, uh, I think the iranian government. Um accused him of blasphemy and you know that book. He wrote satanic verses and he was what you call it um, they ordered, they basically sentenced him to a death sentence, essentially right yeah, I think that that that, I think, again covers the same point.
Speaker 2:The uk government didn't support the british government in in doing that. Um people came out because they were, they didn't agree with his thing, they thought it was wrong, they thought the book should be taken down again. They felt as though it was an injustice, whether you agree with that or not. It wasn't like they weren't burning the country down, they weren't doing things like that, they just held an opinion.
Speaker 2:That was not the same as most people within the country, most people, yeah, in this country, who like, say freedom of speech, no matter what, you should do all of that, but they believe that he was blaspheming against their religion. He was um being spreading mistruths about their religion as well. So, yeah, again it's. I don't think it covers the same thing as the pro-palestine marches or protests, because because, again, like I said, that's against a systematic issue where the government is upholding something, these people are protesting against that, whereas this is just something different, something emotional that gets people onto the streets and say this is not OK, we don't accept this, we don't think this is right, and say this is not okay.
Speaker 1:We don't accept this, we don't think this is right. And then he goes on to say I'm not justifying any acts of violence that occurred against anybody during and after the rise. I'm just we appreciate that trevor, that you know glad to hear that.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying that he also mentioned the manchester airport incident, which I think is important to touch on, where those uh two kids, uh two men, sorry attack the police and then the police clearly go way too far stamps on his head while he's lying face down on the floor like no matter what you say. That is too much for a police officer, for a person of that power and responsibility, to do. The reason he's walking free is because he got they posted bail and they haven't charged him yet because the case is a bit tricky, since the police officer used too much force in that instance. So it's not just a simple the guy punches him, he goes to prison. The police officer also acted unlawfully.
Speaker 2:If a normal person did that the police, what the police officer did, you would be in prison. It's literally in the law in this country. In this country, if someone can't defend themselves and then you continue attacking them, even if they attacked you first, you are liable to go to prison, to go to jail. So yeah, that's why that case is again different. It's tricky. That guy should not have attacked the police officer. But it's also not as simple as people make it out to be with this two-tier policing that, oh, they're not in prison, so it must be two-tier policing. The law has to take its course also regarding the two-tier policing.
Speaker 2:A lot of the muslim people who engaged in violence have now been arrested in those uh, during the last week of riots that we saw even though they were retaliate, as they should be, even though they were retaliating, although they should be, even though they were retaliating, although they weren't retaliating in the right way, but given the timeline of events, like you, can't argue that they weren't retaliating. That's just an objective fact. The communities were attacked, they came out to retaliate. Some of them went way too far and now rightfully- they are being arrested, as they should be.
Speaker 2:The labor counselor who said that you should cut the throat of the far right has been arrested, as he should be.
Speaker 2:A muslim person was arrested for uh, some of their tweets online, as have some of these far right individuals, as they should be. This two-tier policing thing is one of the biggest and most dangerous lies that is being spread by people like Tommy Robinson again, because they highlight everything that goes wrong in a case where a Muslim is involved, but when that happens with white people all over the country, no one cares. It's the same thing in america, which is you saw for so long white people getting away with crimes that black people and other ethnic people wouldn't, including police officers who murdered people in cold blood. They just get suspended for a couple months and then come back, and then when people went to protest against this, it was almost switched around, saying that all the black lives matter movement isn't getting prosecuted, as it should be after, like black people have just been innocent. Black people have been killed for so long. Same things going on here. The system has always favor white, favored white, native people.
Speaker 1:Ethnic people are a lot more likely, especially black people in this country to be victims or targets of stop and search measures and things like that, because the person was already detained and he was stomping his head and could have God forbid unalived him. That doesn't mean that, if he had done some heinous things, that we think those are okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Can we not talk about two wrongs at the same time? We should be able to talk about two wrongs at the same time, and one should not assume that, oh, just because we're talking about this other issue, that doesn't mean that we don't think the guy hitting a woman or whatever other crimes he may have committed, are okay. They're not okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I don't know why we have to see we're on our back foot. We always have to prove ourselves, guys. Look, we are Muslims, we're not evil people. We always have to prove ourselves, guys, look, we are muslims, we're not evil people. Is this, is this the type of country like you you want to make like? Is this how we should be making every muslim feel? Or every jewish person or every white person, that look, guys, I'm not evil? That everyone has to justify their morality when they've clearly not done anything wrong?
Speaker 2:yeah, how is that productive.
Speaker 2:That's a very good point and, again, a lot of white people do do that. They have some sort of guilt for the past actions, things like colonialism, slavery. We don't think that's right either. You shouldn't feel guilty or bad just for being white.
Speaker 2:However, I really don't agree with this narrative that we should stop framing people as far right. If they are far right, we should label them as far right. Same way, if someone is a terrorist, you should label them as a terrorist. If you have nazi symbols, you are far right. If you are doing the nazi salutes and people are videoing this guy with the natty tattoo on his back and they're all cheering him on and laughing, that's quite clearly far right. If you're burning down immigrant hotels, that's far right.
Speaker 2:If you have an issue with us calling these people far right, that is quite concerning. I'm not gonna lie, that is the most concerning thing that trevor said. You might not be far right, trevor. You might just have concerns about illegal immigration, things like that. It's very fair, valid concerns that you can have conversations about. You can figure things out, but the rights that we saw were definitely organized and perpetrated in a large part by the far right contingent in this country, because normal people don't set fire to libraries, normal people don't throw bricks at police officers and mosques and things like that. Normal people don't set fire to citizens advice bureaus that are, it's almost essential to the working class and people who are in need. But that's not just like the right side of politics, the left side of politics or concerned British citizens, that is, people who are extremists, they're radicals, they have been radicalized, they're far right, without a doubt, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's very well said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important to note that these conversations are very key. Like, if you have these concerns, have these conversations. Don't be worried about expressing your opinion, especially if you're coming at it in good faith. Everyone's going to respond to you and take that well. However, if you you are being disingenuous or malicious, which other commenters have been, it's obvious, it's quite clear to see, whereas I don't think trevor was malicious or disingenuous, um, and hopefully, yeah, and you know, you're kind of reading his message.
Speaker 1:He's kind of confused from what I see, like, oh, I think I think in his own ways he feels like he's in a box as well, and I think that's the online world. Man, trevor, you need to get out into the real world. You're in echo chambers. Go actually meet muslims and speak to real people, right? Whatever religion they're from. Go speak to people in real life, because all these polarizing figures whether it's states, nigel Farage, tommy Robinson or people on the left like Destiny we're not even just targeting far right. Any bloody extremism is bad, right, and the internet is full of extremism, because people can say whatever they want and not be held accountable, right? So you, you got to be very careful that you don't get caught up in these echo chambers and I don't know a muslim channel with some maybe with like million subscribers, unfortunately who's saying horrible things, and then you're like, okay, that's, that's Islam. Guys, look at him, he represents all Muslims. No, he doesn't.
Speaker 1:Go. Get to know people yourself, honestly. Get to know people yourself. Then you can make up your mind and speak to different people. Don't just speak to one Muslim. Okay, that's what they all must be like, everyone's different.
Speaker 1:Even within Islam, even within Christianity, there's so many sects. You can't just put people in one box. It's more nuanced and more complex than you think. It is Like what he said earlier about the protesting and things like that. There is a lot more nuance to things and, because of our lack of understanding and our lack of knowledge, we do tend to jump into conclusion because that's the easier thing to do. But I hope people like you, trevor that you know and and this goes for us as well we will have. You know we need to take the harder route. Do our research. Speak to different people. You know the the, the misconceptions we may hold or the ideas we already hold. Challenge them. I know it's an uncomfortable experience. Challenge them. Speak to people we we don't agree with. I know it's an uncomfortable experience. Challenge them. Speak to people we don't agree with. It's challenging, it's very difficult because it's triggering, but that's where knowledge is, that's where unity will come from, that's where this radicalization will end. So, yeah, I just wanted to, you know, touch on that. Anything else, waleed.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's very, very well said. I think we should call it a day there we. I hope that did answer some of trevor's questions and if you do have other questions you can leave a comment again. And if anyone else has these kind of questions and concerns as well, just let us know. And yeah, we will try our best to get back to you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, willie, and answer your concerns. This was a very productive conversation, very, very productive.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Trevor, for leaving the conference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean proper detail. You really expressed your concerns, articulated yourself well. We hope that we actually answered your questions because, although we disagreed with a lot of the things you said, we do appreciate that you did say them, and in a respectful way as well. So all the best to you and all the best to everyone else watching.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
