Last Neanderthals Podcast
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Last Neanderthals Podcast
Israel's Aggression in Beirut and the World's Hypocrisy
What drives a nation to flatten entire neighborhoods and take countless innocent lives? Join us for a heartfelt and critical discussion on the recent harrowing events in Lebanon, where Israel's aggressive military tactics have wreaked havoc, mirroring past tragedies faced by Palestinians. Our shared reflections from Bilal's moving poetry event highlight the undeniable human cost of these conflicts, especially the controversial pager attack targeting civilians, including children, and the relentless bombings that have left Beirut in ruins.
Is human nature inherently selfish, and how does this selfishness impact our ability to empathize with those in distant conflicts? We explore this profound question by comparing the emotional weight of personal stories with the cold detachment of statistics. Through examples like Marcus Rashford’s impactful advocacy, we illustrate how personal experiences shape our empathy and can inspire global solidarity. Hypocrisy in how the world responds to different conflicts, such as Ukraine-Russia versus the Middle East, underscores the selective nature of our compassion.
Finally, we confront the complex, often hypocritical narratives that perpetuate ongoing violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We critique the reckless military strategies and double standards that deepen the suffering and trauma of innocent people, drawing troubling parallels to past U.S. military interventions. By emphasizing the voices of Jewish individuals opposing their government's actions and advocating for a humane and empathetic approach, we call for sustained dialogue and negotiation as the path toward a just and peaceful resolution.
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Welcome back to the Last Nihon Nathoz podcast. Today we're going to be talking about what happened in Lebanon over the past few days. First, khashoggi how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm good. Yesterday I went to Bilal's poetry event Very good, really enjoyed it. And just to see the suffering people are going through. There were a lot of Palestinian supporters and they shared their stories. And to think that it's almost been a. It's coming to an end, a year's time and nothing, nothing has been done to stop this war. It's heartbreaking not only that other countries are being attacked now.
Speaker 1:Bilal for anyone who doesn't know is a british palestinian who's been on our podcast twice now um to speak about what's happening in palestine, how it's affected his family, because he's lost over 60 family members. The house affected him. So if you're interested in that conversation, you can find that on our channel too. But today, like you just said, there's other countries who are now going through the same things, in particular lebanon. It seems like israel is just um using the exact same tactic with lebanon that they did in gaza, using the same excuse that they're hiding Hezbollah are hiding behind civilian casualties, using civilians as human shields literally the exact same playbook. Like they don't even care to be creative in their slaughter. Now they just know whatever they do, whatever they say, people will believe it.
Speaker 1:Um, so we saw last Tuesday they did the pager attack, where thousands of pagers simultaneously blew up and of course, nobody knew where these pagers would be at any given moment. They were Hezbollah-issued pagers and Hezbollah are in conflict with Israel. So I mean the argument is that because there are Hezbollah issued pagers, israel is basically at war with Hezbollah not formally, but I guess they are now but because they were basically at war with Hezbollah. This was fair game. But the issue is like we saw children, children get killed. Thousands of innocent people were injured and like blinded and things like that, because these pages were in supermarkets. Like these, people don't just hide off in like some dark caves on their own, they walk around the streets, they're part of society. So people were injured, innocent people who had nothing to do with it, little kids two of them were killed who had nothing to do with it. Israel hasn't officially claimed responsibility, but everyone assumes that it was israel. Um, did you hear about that attack and what did you think about that?
Speaker 2:I mean, my first thought is is how is this going to help get rid of terrorism? You know, because if you're killing innocent people, they're going to have more hatred in their heart against you and then they will go and join these terrorist organizations. Um, so I think again, this reckless approach where it's just dropping bombs, this reckless approach where it's just dropping bombs like not caring. They're literally innocent kids, women. They have nothing to do with this conflict, nothing to do with this world. They just want to, they just want a good living, they just want to go about their day, educate their kids, want a good life and out of nowhere, their kids are missing limbs, they're dead like yeah that's uh you don't understand, like you know, and just what you, what you're doing in lebanon like for, for.
Speaker 2:For me it looks like they just want more land yeah, that's something, if I'm wrong. At this point, it's so blatantly obvious that they just want more land.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go on that's what most critics of israel are saying. So that that takes us to what happened over the past two days now. So the pager attack happened last tuesday and since they've been just bombing relentlessly parts of Lebanon, and now they've bombed Beirut, which is a major city in the Middle East, not just in Lebanon and Lebanon, of course, is also a very diverse country, there's a broad range of people living there but they bombed Beirut. They flattened like six residential buildings. Over a thousand people have thought to have been dead, to have been killed already. Um, and all this just to target one man.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't see how people can't understand how ridiculous this is. Imagine there is one criminal living in your block of apartments and to get that one criminal, they killed you, everyone you loved and everyone else in that apartment building who had nothing to do with it. I mean, this notion would just not be accepted anywhere else in the world. It is so reckless, it is so dangerous to think that you can just kill thousands of innocent people just for one man. It's selfish. In fact, it's so incredibly selfish that for your own self-interest you will just take the lives of that many people.
Speaker 1:And what's even more disheartening is that people are making jokes, people are celebrating and you hear these like pro-israeli propagandists come on these channels and these youtube things like uh, piers morgan, and they say, oh, we're really saddened by the deaths. It's, it's heartbreaking, it's a tragedy, but it's a result of war, it's just what happens. But then you see, after a thing like this, they're celebrating, they're gloating. When thousands of people have been killed, children have been killed, women have been killed, other innocent people have been killed, their first response is to celebrate. Even if you got your target, if you truly felt that way, if you truly cared about these innocent kids being killed, you wouldn't be gleeful. Even if that person you wanted to kill was dead, you would still be heartbroken that so many people had to suffer as a consequence. But if your initial reaction is to laugh and to dance and to celebrate, as we saw videos coming out of Israel and we saw people tweeting, I mean it's actually disgusting to see yeah, 100%, to kill one terrorist.
Speaker 2:You have maybe created a lot more, definitely, most definitely created a lot more. These kids that are not fatherless, that have hate and anger in their heart. They have nowhere to go. Guess who's going to take them under their wing? The terrorist organizations you're going to find, then who's going to take them under their wing? The terrorist organizations you're going to find. Then you're going to have a more it's.
Speaker 2:It's like these quick fixes, right, like taking out the leader, these quick, like these revolutionary type of like you know, just the instant, I don't know going in and just getting rid of, like the top guy or the government or whatever is. They never work, man, because someone else comes in and fills in that vacuum gap, right, they fill in the vacuum of power. And so this again goes back to like, do you really care about ending terrorism and is this the way of going about it? Because the way they're going about it is they're doing. They're doing the complete opposite, in my opinion. Um, and yeah, I wanted to ask how did they go about what? I heard that they found out where exactly he was and they, they ended up killing him, like instantly, like, um, without what, when they killed the leader. No one really got hurt. Uh, do you know how they did it?
Speaker 1:um well, I'm not sure about that. All I saw is that beirut got relentlessly bombed, like for quite a while. Over a thousand people have been killed. So if they did have the capacity to do that, what was the point in killing all those people and dropping all those bombs?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly so that's the argument like a lot of uh people are giving, that the people who are anti-war is that if you found the so what I've heard right I might be wrong, um is that they found the guy's location and everything, and they, you know, they, just they, just they, they, they killed him in a way where there was no collateral damage. And then that goes to the question what was the need to drop all these bombs? When you to drop all these bombs, you couldn't find his location without doing what you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they killed the other thousand people just for a laugh, then yes, that's what it looks like.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what it looks like.
Speaker 1:This is actually like it's terrifying to see this level of disregard for human life, and I don't think we see this type of disregard for human life other than when it's like brown people in the Middle East, Whether it's Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon. We don't see this type of disregard for life in the West at all, but when brown people are getting killed, it's just oh well that just happens.
Speaker 1:That's just war. That's just life. Truly, imagine this was you or this was your country. This was your family members. These people who are supporting this would not accept that happening to them. Imagine the mothers that will never see their children, ever again, the last time they played with them. They'll have that memory stuck in their head forever and nothing else. They won't be able to feel the embrace of their kids again. And the sons and the daughters that will never see their parents again, that will never see their mother smile again. They'll just see their mangled remains and that will be the last they'll ever see of their parents. It's actually heartbreaking. The thought that anyone can be out there celebrating this and laughing and joking and things is actually disgusting. There's no other way to put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We always try and be fair and balanced and give people the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, when it's so blatant and so in front of your face, and people are still doing this, it is truly vile, it's despicable yeah, and then, uh, what also jars me a lot is that the hypocrisy you see in um in america about how they were so against the war crimes of ukraine, and rightfully so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what putin is doing here is disgusting and the war crimes against ukraine that have been committed is disgusting. Don't, don't get me wrong, I have that stance. But then that that anti-war that you know, that's happened. Like I have that anti-war mentality that I have towards Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe, right, white people, I also have that for other people. These people they just have it for Ukraine and anywhere else in the world, it doesn't matter to them. Like I don't understand how you can have this selective empathy. How does that even work?
Speaker 1:well, I think I do think that's part of human nature. To be honest, I think we are very self-interested human beings and we only afford dignity, humanity and human rights to people that we associate ourselves with. So for most people, you want the highest level of human rights for your family members, the people you love the most, and I think that's because you see them as yourself. And then the closer someone is to your circle, the more you care about them, the more you'll think oh yeah, this person deserves these human rights. It's, it's that very simple notion do unto others as you do unto yourself.
Speaker 1:Because I think as humans, we are just intrinsically quite selfish, and if you are happy with doing things to other people, but if that was done to you, you're not happy with it, you are a hypocrite and I think if everyone thought in this way, that if that was done to me would I be okay with it, and they were honest with themselves, and then they said, no, if that was done to me I wouldn't be happy, so it shouldn't happen, someone else like, simply, we would all be better people.
Speaker 1:But no one does that. Everyone is so incredibly selfish and I think I do think maybe that does come from human nature. Like we've always been tribalistic, it's always been our tribe that we can associate with, and the further that people get away from that, the more they just turn into these distant figures, not these human beings with lives and stories and friends, families, mothers, fathers the more we can say that their suffering is okay. If we saw every single person as ourselves, as our mother, as our father, as our brother, as our sister, we would feel empathy for their suffering. But we don't. We just see these numbers on a screen a thousand people killed in lebanon.
Speaker 1:Most people don't care, even if people, even if people pretend to care. This is so sad. Whatever a thousand people care, no one truly understands it or comprehends what that means, like a thousand families affected.
Speaker 2:No one gets it this is the problem with the mainstream media is that they give you these numbers and we are desensitized to it. I think storytelling is way more powerful if they, if the mainstream media, showed that. What does it, what does it mean to be a palestinian? What does what like the kind of life they're living, the kind of pain they're going through, um, where they're born, how complicated that world is, and truly showing their life in an accurate way. People would be, they would have a lot more sympathy and empathy.
Speaker 2:But when you just, I don't know, when people just become a statistic, um, humans can't like engage with that, they can't relate to it. Um, like, I think simon senec was making this point that you know, if you said like, oh, um, 500 dogs starve for hunger, right, yeah, you'll be like it's sad. But if I tell you a dog that was roaming around for days, that had no food to find, people were beating him up with sticks and this dog had nowhere to go, and you know, eventually, anyways, I give you that like that detail, like what that dog actually went through, for the dog to die, right, same, same principle, if we really showed, like, what these humans actually go through, rather than, oh, thousand people died 500. It's like a counter right.
Speaker 1:People don't even they can't comprehend the suffering that way and we need to be able to comprehend the suffering and the mainstream media in that sense needs to do a better job yeah, I, and again, I think you're right and I think it comes back to that that innate selfishness in us, like we have to be associated that suffering to some level of suffering we've faced ourselves, whether that's a period of loneliness or a period of being left out or hunger or sadness or whatever. If we have felt that feeling ourselves and we see another person going through that and we are told that story, then we can relate, then we can feel empathy. Told that story, then we can relate, then we can feel empathy. Like, for example, when someone's family member goes through cancer. They then become more empathetic towards cancer. They donate to like cancer charities. We saw this with marcus rashford as well. He relied on like food banks when he was younger. So then as he's grown up, he's been more sympathetic towards uh food banks, giving them um donations and advocating for them uh, politically, and I think everyone does this. Like, whatever you have been through, you are more charitable and more empathetic towards that.
Speaker 1:So this is why storytelling is so important in situations like this, because it humanizes people, it helps you see yourself in the other person and like films are a great example of this as well.
Speaker 1:You'll see like one of the main characters is in trouble, they might lose their life and, like you're so invested, you're so sad, and all these heroes come to save that one person, but in the midst of that they'll kill like a thousand other side characters in the film, but no one cares because you don't know their story. Like all these other characters dying it's, it's okay, but as long as that one guy got saved and that's literally what our real life is as well like for a small minority of people, their life matters. Everyone else's life is quite worthless to the majority of human beings, which is sad. And, like you said, the ukraine and russia thing is such a great example of like the hypocrisy and the contradictions that we see, because russia is a invading force into ukraine and everyone can blatantly see how that is wrong. They're killing innocent people and that's wrong. But when Israel does the same thing, this is going on and that's going on, and they're in a tough neighborhood and all of this.
Speaker 1:When they've been bombing their neighbors for so long, but they're the ones in a tough neighborhood. It's also this anti-Arab sentiment that Arabs are just aggressive and terrorists. I feel like it's been decades of the narrative building against Arabs and Muslims that these people are just aggressive, they're terrorists. They want to kill people, so therefore their deaths are kind of acceptable because you know they're just barbaric anyway. They don't provide anything useful to society.
Speaker 2:That's very well said.
Speaker 1:I think another really troubling thing as well is that pager attack, because I mean so they got into the supply chain at some point and what's concerning is, if they can do that with the pagers, what other technology can they do that with? Because there's a hundred thousand pagers being used in the NHS. Like imagine someone just did an attack like that in the UK. Like these kinds of things should not become acceptable and that's why israel won't take responsibility for it, because they know it was a terrorist action. Like if they thought it was okay, they'd take responsibility for it, like they have done for anything else. But you can't just booby trap devices that could come into the hands of civilians or in the vicinity of civilians in everyday life.
Speaker 1:Like one thing people struggle to understand is like everyone will get these hands on these devices, whether a hezbollah member loses them, misplaces it, or like someone just buys one off the market, it comes uh it. Like someone loses it, comes onto the market, someone buys it, or someone finds it, something like that they will change hands. Like these aren't strict things. These organizations aren't perfect. Mistakes happen, things do get lost, things do change hands and get misplaced. So it's such a dangerous precedent to send because imagine, like your phone, like everyone's phones, just start getting bombed. And they, they blame this kind of stuff on china. They, they told us china was the dangerous one with technology and they want to hack all our technology and do all these crazy things, but when their ally does it, silent, no words yeah, the hypocrisy shocks me.
Speaker 2:and the fact that another thing, the fact that the UN is inviting Netanyahu. Man, they have lost the plot. Yeah, did you see that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And he called in the strike from New York as well, which again is just what the hell yeah. Again is just like what the hell yeah. A question people should pose is if he's calling in airstrikes like that from new york, does that make that area now a legitimate target for hezbollah? And the answer is clearly no. But imagine if the if this was done the other way around, like when Israel bombed, was it in Syria or Iran or somewhere? They bombed a consulate because they said, oh, there was terrorists in there, so we had to bomb it. But never would it be acceptable for, let's say, Hezbollah, for example, to bomb that place in New York because, oh, our netanyahu's a terrorist in their eyes and he was in there. Like there's so many hypocrisies in every single thing they do and nobody cares yeah, and guys, just to clarify, we're not hezbollah sympathizers.
Speaker 2:That group has done horrible things in syria to innocent people. It's just we're. We're against this collateral damage where thousands of innocent people are dying, how they are going into countries with no proper plan, nothing, and just killing people, innocent people, when this all can be avoided through sitting down and conversations. It's just. You know, when I look at this whole 7th of October situation and you know the way Israel has retaliated, it's like literally the same playbook of what happened after 9-11, where Bush administration just blindly, with no strategy, nothing, just went into Afghanistan 20 years of war of nothing, and Iraq as well, and Iraq as well Committed a genocide. One million people died in Iraq, right, and they had no strategy. They didn't even know what it meant to, they didn't even know what winning was, they didn't even have an objective. They just blindly went there, did God knows what in those 20 years. I mean, they committed a genocide in Iraq and ruined Afghanistan and Natal Eman Abaq.
Speaker 2:So again it regressed. They made that place worse than it was before and again they learned nothing from that. They literally learned nothing from that, literally learned nothing from that. And they've done the same thing with palestine. They retaliated. Yes, of course, what hamas did was incredibly disgusting. But sit down, learn from that. What you, what the british administration did wrong. Don't repeat their mistakes. But guess what they have done. They've done exactly that went first into palestine, now le, now Lebanon is their version of Iraq.
Speaker 2:That's why I say that.
Speaker 1:And again, like you said, those attacks were horrendous on October 7th and Hezbollah has done horrendous things as well. But I mean, you hear this thing that Israel has the right to defend itself and of course, everyone has the right to defend itself and of course, like everyone, has the right to defend itself. But defending yourself is not the same as invading another country and attacking like it's. I don't understand how this narrative is allowed to play out as well, because it's so stupid. You defend yourself when you are being attacked. You protect your borders. You put measures in place to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1:Bombing another country consistently for 11 months, it's not defending yourself. You are the aggressor at that point, on that day when you were being attacked. Yes, you can defend yourself. The day after, you can defend yourself, but when it's been going on for 11 months, like it's so blatantly obvious that that's not defense, no one in their right mind. If someone attacks me, I protect myself. I make sure that person can't harm me at the moment, but then I continue just beating him, beating him up, beating him up, breaking his jaw, breaking his legs, like beating him to a pulp, and I'm like, yeah, and I said oh, I was just defending myself.
Speaker 1:It's a crime.
Speaker 2:I was just defending myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in uk you'd go to prison you'll go to prison.
Speaker 2:So if someone hits you, I'm allowed to hit them back and defend myself. But if now that knocked them out, or now I have like basically um, what you call it defuse the situation, if I then go and do further damage to him, I'm going jail. It's simple as that. But again, this law doesn't apply on the international scale. And it should. It should apply yeah, exactly like.
Speaker 1:This is such a stupid narrative like what was israel supposed to do? Control your borders, make sure those people are all out of Israel, make sure that rocket attacks aren't affecting Israel and then actually work towards a peaceful resolution instead of continuing your occupation, because it seems like that's what they value more than their hostages, more than any innocent life. It's just for the occupation to carry on. Hamas had said we want a ceasefire and if we get a ceasefire, if the occupation ends like, we lay down our arms. Hezbollah has said the same thing if you have a ceasefire in Gaza, we'll stop firing rockets into Israel. They don't care, because that means they would have to work towards a diplomatic resolution, and Netanyahu does not want that because he knows that Israeli people are sick and tired of him and they want to get rid of him. So he wants this war to continue as long as possible, and all these apologists that keep making excuses for his warmongering are complicit in this.
Speaker 1:The people who want peace are obvious. Those people have made themselves clear to everyone, and the people who want war and destruction have made themselves abundantly obvious to everyone as well. Even people like pierce morgan are complicit like using these phrases like oh, what is an appropriate response? But what is justified? It's clear that what is going on is not justified, like if you can't. What is justified? It's clear that what is going on is not justified, like if you can't make that distinction, then you are just a bad person.
Speaker 2:He appears more than was anti-Iraq war Right? And again it was an emotional. Not only did they manipulate the information on weapons of massive destruction, even the UN was like you know what? There is no mass. The people went to survey that country. They found nothing right. It was an emotional decision. Same with Afghanistan. The way Bush administration went. That's not inappropriate. That was not like Piers Morgan knows. That wasn't the appropriate response. Then what makes you think that this is? Don't act stupid, man, don't act ignorant. You know exactly how they have approached it. It has not been the way. They did not sit down with any international communities to resolve this. But again, if their intention was to kill terrorism, you don't bomb innocent civilians, because I can't say this enough. When you bomb innocent people, they can't say this enough. When you bomb innocent people, they have nowhere to go but join the terrorist groups because they get groomed, they're vulnerable.
Speaker 1:They have no fathers, they have no mothers, they have no education and that doesn't excuse what they do, but it helps us understand why they do what they do, so we can prevent future generations from doing the same. If we blindly just say that these people are just aggressive and they just want to kill people, that's just such a naive, stupid way to think. Like we can stop this from happening, but the way to stop it is not to create more of these monsters, it's to stop the supply chain, and the supply chain is war. The supply chain for these terrorists is war. When you create these vulnerable young men who have nowhere to go, and then these groomers who are the terrorist organizations prey on them and get them into their groups. That's how I don't know Netanyahu can't spread this service.
Speaker 2:He knows this he's an American. They fucking clearly know this and this will be their excuse card. This will be like the terrorist card that they always throw around, because they always want to have this excuse. So they don't care, they're going to bomb innocent civilians. They don't care if they join the terrorist groups, because it gives them the excuse to occupy the the lands of these innocent people and profit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's so blatantly obvious, like when I'm, when we're speaking about these things, when we're speaking about these things, when we're saying about these things, it seems so redundant because it's like you'd assume everyone knows this at this point. There's been so many studies, so many research, so many experts have come out and said the exact same things, but apparently just no one cares.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they invite these motivational speakers her people, her people. Childhood trauma, ooh-hoo ha-ha, productivity and all that stuff, divorce and your past traumas addressing them. Wait, do you think these people that are living in these Arab lands are not humans? Do you think they're the same principles, psychological principles that the great Freud and all these Western philosophers and psychologists totally don't apply to them. Don't act, stupid man. Don't act stupid and ignorant.
Speaker 2:You know, if anyone can be grown and anyone can become a terrorist, given the circumstances and the environment and the settings they're born into yeah, it's, it's so.
Speaker 1:This is common knowledge now that traumatic experiences leads to very negative repercussions for human beings and what they end up becoming. But apparently no one wants to talk about that when it's arabs or brown people, because they just want to think that these are just bad people, that they just want to cause destruction. And maybe it's just their religion, maybe it's just that area, maybe it's something to do with their genetics, but their families getting killed, their ancestors getting killed, seeing destruction and war all around them, that doesn't matter. But if you're living in the west, your parents get divorced. That's the worst thing in the world and you'll never recover. But these kids in the middle east have to accept their whole family being burnt to bits by by bombs and being shot by officers and all of this. That's fine. Like. I can't even find the words To talk about this, because it's so blatantly obvious I don't even know what words To put to it. To make it even more clear yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I'm also struggling to find words Because it is so Common sense, and especially with the education that they're getting In these countries. These warlords, they have all the money I bet their kids get the best education and they're getting in these countries. You know these warlords, they have all the money.
Speaker 1:I bet their kids get the best education and they probably do humanities and liberal arts and they probably do all of that good stuff and but the good thing is, it seems like the majority of people do care and and they like not necessarily care in the way that it affects their everyday life and they're heartbroken, but they're against it. The majority of people want a ceasefire and the majority of people want to see an end to the suffering and the pain, but it's these people in power and these people in these positions of influence, like the media outlets and the Piers Morgans and all these things. They just seem to not care at all. Which is it just because power corrupts, or is it just that these bad people tend to get in this position of power?
Speaker 2:Money. Some of these people probably also have been blackmailed into doing this stuff, by the way, as well. Well, they've been systematically corrupted, like slowly and slowly, we, we, you look at the diddy situation how many careers he's ruined and how many people he's blackmailed, you know, like if they didn't go to his parties and stuff like that. Like you see the videos with justin bieber, right, yeah, and he's like, literally, you can see the pain in that kid's eye. He's fucking scared man. And it's same same shit, man, these they've corrupt and blackmail these people. They, you know, they have tapes on them that they can leak.
Speaker 1:If they can, like you said, if they can hack into these pages and do all of these things and destroy countries just through cyber attacks, right, you know, they, they can, they can do that to good people that are against these rules and then they can't say anything yeah, exactly, and um, speaking of good people, I think it's always important to mention the, the jewish people who are speaking out against this, because that takes a certain kind of strength and a certain kind of self-reflection and a strong set of morals to look past the bias that you will have and the propaganda that you will have, because everyone has our own biases based on where we grew up and our family and everything like that.
Speaker 1:But to be able to break through that and speak against what is going on does um need to be applauded, especially at a time when anti-semitism will be rising and they will probably be getting hate just for being jewish from ignorant people who will ascribe these actions to all jewish.
Speaker 1:So I think as a community as a whole. We need to do more to recognize the efforts of these people who are supporting us despite everything against them, and also just the Palestinian people and the Lebanese people who are going through this at the moment. I can't imagine how difficult this must be being in those situations, like just thinking about the kids and the mothers and the fathers and stuff. It is actually heartbreaking like we're fortunate we can switch off from it. But I don't even know if that's good to do, to switch off from it, because again it just creates an unempathetic situation like these kids can't switch off. This is their reality, like if they have to go through that in real life, we can afford them the, the, the like, decency of just imagining what life is like for them.
Speaker 1:Because we do this all the time, we shut ourselves off from these things and these emotions. No one wants to imagine that kid walking in and seeing his mother like mangled and dead, the person that he loves more than anyone else, just gone. She'll never see her again. No one wants to imagine that. But if you actually think of that as your own mother, I don't understand. If you actually think of that as your own mother, I don't understand how you can think of that and be like this is fine, this is okay. So maybe the thing to do is for people to stop shutting themselves off from these things because it's so easy to do, because it is heartbreaking when you actually think about it yeah, but also people need to be careful that they they will feel anger, they'll feel hate, that they that hate and that anger.
Speaker 2:I guess those emotions are used in a productive way, that you don't become corrupted and you don't start hating one group of people, like what he said there are a lot of jewish people.
Speaker 2:Anti-semitism is rising a lot of jewish people in israel, by the way. It's very difficult, especially when you are living in a country and you're speaking against your corrupt leaders. You're horrible the warlords like netanyahu's because they can get rid of you. We we've been through this wally like. When you speak about against taliban, right, and you live there, your taliban could be literally a block away from they could be living in the same neighborhood as you. That's way more difficult than if you were to live I don't know, in the other side of Pakistan or if you were in Dubai and you were the loudest voice, right, there is no repercussions, but to actually live there and speak against these horrible people, you know people. That is very admirable. And another thing I want to touch on Is that you are right we can't shut off Because this can't become a norm. This cannot become a norm. This is not okay, this will never be okay and we can't get used to this.
Speaker 1:We can't do anything.
Speaker 2:What's the point? What's the point of speaking? That's, that's how we lose.
Speaker 1:That's how exactly we can't and, like you said, like for people in israel, there's more repercussions to this than anyone else for speaking out. Like we saw that one young kid who refused military service because of what was going on in gaza and they um sent him to prison and unfortunately people were still hating on him. Like people on the pro-palestine side, on our side, were like, well, he's still a settler, that's, that's not how it works, man, he's born there.
Speaker 1:He's born there. He had nothing to do with that. He hasn't actively displaced anyone from his land. Like you have to give people some sort of leeway. You can't just be like a radical in this as well and say yeah even a baby that's born there is a settler or whatever.
Speaker 1:They have nothing to do with it. It's their forefathers, the ancestors who came there, who stole the land. The people are still oppressing if someone is living there and they want to work towards a two-state solution or even a one-state solution. They're empathetic towards the palestinian cause and they want people to come back. They want to see the return of palestinian people to their rightful homeland. You should be happy about that. You should accept that and not be like not do this side thing, that oh, they're all the same and we're all on this side. It's really naive. It's really stupid 100.
Speaker 2:And to those people I say right, let's say, if they're muslim, for example, that yeah, if you're against islamophobia and you don't like the label of being called a terrorist which you shouldn't be called a terrorist because you're not responsible for the actions of people weaponizing your religion, it's disgusting that they're doing to that to you well then you can't do the same to Jewish people? I'm sorry you can't, it's not right. So if you don't, like it to be done to you.
Speaker 1:like Wally said, don't do it to others, yeah, and if you're an American, especially saying that then you should just give up your home and your land for Native Americans. This is not an acceptable position to hold. If someone's just been born into this situation, they are not to blame for it for the sins of their forefathers. If you are a Muslim as well, that's a key concept. In Islam, you don't hold the children responsible for the sins of the father. But if there's actively people who are expanding and doing these settler colonies and people who are committing these atrocities in the idf, yes, we should be against that. Yes, we should advocate for palestinians to return to some sort of diplomatic resolution, but it can't also just be to ethnically cleanse all of these people who were born into this situation in israel as well. Like they cannot be held responsible, uh, for what is going on either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very well said should we call it a day?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's call it a day and we pray that this there's an end to this war. We pray for those innocent people who have lost their homes, family members. May God give them patience, may God give them courage and may God protect us from ignorance. Honestly, because how can these people continue to do these horrible things and suffer no repercussions or have no empathy? And you know and I and I hope God protects their kids from, you know, from these evil doings, because you know, I feel sorry for these, you know, I, I feel sorry for these, the kids of these tyrants, because they're going to become like them, you know they're going to continue the I guess, the generational toxic mentality of treating people in a humane way.
Speaker 2:So yeah, very, very sad situation.
Speaker 1:InshaAllah it gets resolved soon. We've been saying that for the past 11 months, but hopefully something happens soon and we pray for the people of gaza, lebanon, sudan and everywhere else in the world where they're suffering yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:we also pray for the innocent jewish people that their religion has been weaponized and they've been demonized, and we also pray for. We pray for everyone, every innocent being, and we also pray for these fucking monsters that they have, you know, in the monstrous way that they're acting because we. I hope God just gives them some common sense and they realize what they're doing is atrocious and they stop doing what they're doing and they make up for their sins. I pray for that too. I pray to God that they get saved from their anger, their hate and their vengeance that they carry in their heart, because too many innocent people are suffering. Life is already hard enough, but they're making it harder for people, so I hope God teaches them a lesson.
Speaker 1:Inshallah, All right. Thanks for listening everyone. Hopefully we will see you again soon. See you, man.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye.
